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D - DTL: the process: a clarification

reply "Matthew" <matthew.hat stlsoft.dot.org> writes:
Just to clarify Ant's concern:

As far as I'm concerned, what I'm doing is *a* DTL, not *the* DTL. In other
words, there's no agreement between me and Walter that this is automatically
*the* (container) template library for D. If someone else is to write one that's
better, then presumably that will become the standard.

Yes, Walter's making compiler/language changes as a result of my work on (my)
DTL, but these changes are things that are required generally, and may be part
of
any DTL.

As well as the practical reasons I've stated in other parts of this thread, and
in other threads, the reason I'm working on this alone at the moment is that
when
I'm concocting things such as this, where there's a large amount of "unknown"
involved, I tend to "feel" before I understand it; the same's been the case for
many of the techiques I've invented in C++/STLSoft (and which you can read about
in Sept/Oct in "Imperfect C++" <G>). As such, there's little point trying to
share something, especially when it's not in person but over a NG forum, when
you
can't even explain what you mean or how it will work, is there?

As soon as the language support is there, and my fundamental designs are in
working code, I will release it asap. I am very much hoping that the handful of
containers that I will have written will serve as templates - pardon the pun -
for others, and that people will at that stage get involved, and write
singly-linked lists, multimaps and all the others that have been mentioned. I
have neither the time nor the inclination nor (quite) the ego/selfishness to be
the author of every aspect of DTL.

As I've said many times over the last few months, nothing's a done deal. I've
not
done a blood deal with big-W. If you want to write your own DTL and offer that
up
to everyone, go for it.

Cheers


-- 
Matthew Wilson

Contributing editor, C/C++ Users Journal
    (www.synesis.com.au/articles.html#columns)
STLSoft moderator
    (http://www.stlsoft.org)

"An Englishman by birth, a Yorkshireman by the grace of God" -- Michael Gibbs

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Apr 25 2004
next sibling parent reply J Anderson <REMOVEanderson badmama.com.au> writes:
Matthew wrote:


As such, there's little point trying to
share something, especially when it's not in person but over a NG forum, when
you
can't even explain what you mean or how it will work, is there?
  


I think if DTL was designed by the NG, it would be years before anything 
was done.  Most of the time would be spent arguing about one aspect or 
the other.  It is good your making a start on something that will 
hopefully form a platform for future DTL's.

Will you eventually put DTL on something like dsource, so other smart 
people (not like myself <g>) can improve your version of DTL?

-- 
-Anderson: http://badmama.com.au/~anderson/
Apr 25 2004
parent "Matthew" <matthew.hat stlsoft.dot.org> writes:
 Matthew wrote:


As such, there's little point trying to
share something, especially when it's not in person but over a NG forum, when




you

can't even explain what you mean or how it will work, is there?


 I think if DTL was designed by the NG, it would be years before anything
 was done.  Most of the time would be spent arguing about one aspect or
 the other.  It is good your making a start on something that will
 hopefully form a platform for future DTL's.


Thanks. That's pretty much my opinion.


 Will you eventually put DTL on something like dsource, so other smart
 people (not like myself <g>) can improve your version of DTL?


I'm not sure. If Walter likes it, and no-one else writes one, I assume it'll go
into Phobos. I don't know - haven't really thought that far. Certainly I'm open
to that idea.
Apr 25 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent "Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown at.simplemachines.dot.org> writes:
Matthew wrote:


 As well as the practical reasons I've stated in other parts of this thread, and
 in other threads, the reason I'm working on this alone at the moment is that
when
 I'm concocting things such as this, where there's a large amount of "unknown"
 involved, I tend to "feel" before I understand it; the same's been the case for


I didn't mean to clutter up your work, by any means! (sorry, I just get 
find it fun to poke at the name I use online..)


 many of the techiques I've invented in C++/STLSoft (and which you can read
about
 in Sept/Oct in "Imperfect C++" <G>). As such, there's little point trying to
 share something, especially when it's not in person but over a NG forum, when
you
 can't even explain what you mean or how it will work, is there?
 
 As soon as the language support is there, and my fundamental designs are in
 working code, I will release it asap. I am very much hoping that the handful of
 containers that I will have written will serve as templates - pardon the pun -
 for others, and that people will at that stage get involved, and write
 singly-linked lists, multimaps and all the others that have been mentioned. I
 have neither the time nor the inclination nor (quite) the ego/selfishness to be
 the author of every aspect of DTL.


Personally, having read many of your posts on this forum I think you are 
a qualified person to write the DTL.  While I and others may not always 
agree with you, that is the nature of us human beings.

As has been said here before, people tend to argue because they want the 
best or most perfect implementation.  This makes sense, and you can't 
blame anyone for this - but, developing to please everyone is always 
going to cause problems.

This is why in collaborative projects, different people get assigned 
different tasks.  The problem is, if you start like this, you get 
several different parts that don't interact well.  On the other hand, if 
you do this after the framework is built... everyone understands how to 
get it to work together, and logically along side everything else.

So, in my opinion, it is best to have the thing worked out by one such 
as yourself because it is publicly developed at all.  One person can 
make something that is "the same" and "logical" much better than a 
couple of people - and once it gets to the point everyone can work on 
it, it may even change significantly... but, the framework, the ideas, 
the consistency will be there.

And, consistency is one of the most important things, in my humble 
opinion, to have when you are programming - more important than an 
exactly "perfect" DTL.

Just my opinions though.

-[Unknown]
Apr 25 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent "Achilleas Margaritis" <axilmar in.gr> writes:
 As far as I'm concerned, what I'm doing is *a* DTL, not *the* DTL. In


other

 words, there's no agreement between me and Walter that this is


automatically

 *the* (container) template library for D. If someone else is to write one


that's

 better, then presumably that will become the standard.


Go for it!!! D needs every good piece of code. It deserves to succeed.
Apr 25 2004
prev sibling parent Ant <duitoolkit yahoo.ca> writes:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:42:43 +1000, Matthew wrote:


 Just to clarify Ant's concern:


thanks :)

 
 As far as I'm concerned, what I'm doing is *a* DTL, not *the* DTL.


Dont' get me worng. We thank you for it!

I just happen to believe that if show what you have
people that will be using it might contribute.

I said before that this kind of volunteer projects
need to be started by one person. If the project
has merit others will join.

Ant
PS seems that pan's "Articles/cancel" really works...
Apr 25 2004