D - Reality check.
- larry cowan (43/43) Feb 06 2004 A few "reality-check" questions and suggestions:
- Achilleas Margaritis (32/75) Feb 06 2004 D should have 100% source code compatibility between different operating
- Walter (37/79) Feb 06 2004 jump in
- J C Calvarese (52/99) Feb 06 2004 I hope so.
- C (40/144) Feb 06 2004 So true ... and most times they dont even think its a bug just a languag...
- Andres Rodriguez (6/18) Feb 06 2004 Nevertheless I think nothing beats open-ness. Let vendors have a rug,
- Sean Kelly (11/19) Feb 06 2004 I just heard about D a few days ago (thanks to a thread Walter is in on
- Matthew (38/57) Feb 06 2004 language
- Walter (7/18) Feb 06 2004 It's microsoft.public.vc.stl for anyone interested in it.
- C (11/35) Feb 07 2004 I hope so!
- Walter (4/6) Feb 07 2004 Since libcurl is a C library, a D wrapper for it should be pretty easy. ...
- C (11/17) Feb 07 2004 I have tried in the past , i took the approach of building the .dll in V...
- Ilya Minkov (6/15) Feb 07 2004 You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compiler into a lib. This
- Walter (3/7) Feb 07 2004 Yes, a static lib. I'd forget about making a curl dll for this project.
- C (27/35) Feb 08 2004 Ok , the api wrappers are at www.atari-soldiers.com/curl.d . Compiled an...
- Walter (5/44) Feb 08 2004 That was fast! Could you let the curl guys know so they can put a link u...
- C (8/66) Feb 09 2004 Yep already sent ( on the mailing list ) ;).
- Walter (4/73) Feb 08 2004 Were you also able to build curl with dmc++?
- C (11/87) Feb 09 2004 Not yet, I tried a couple months back , and the pre-proccessor seems to
- Matthew (7/97) Feb 09 2004 Dude! Amusing as it is to read, do you really want this publicly and
- C (12/113) Feb 09 2004 What my inability to get libcurl compiled ( actually I found the old
- Matthew (9/125) Feb 09 2004 to
- Walter (5/10) Feb 09 2004 There was an issue with the preprocessor that was preventing boost from
- C (28/43) Feb 10 2004 Hmm ok. I got it to compile , needed to change ftp.c , there was a vari...
- C (13/60) Feb 10 2004 Just to be clear here, im trying to compile simple.c , trying to get the
- Walter (9/16) Feb 06 2004 language
- Walter (11/31) Feb 06 2004 Yes, they are. I can't think of a single example otherwise.
- Mark T (10/12) Feb 08 2004 Any language can add or deprecate features over it's "lifetime" but I th...
A few "reality-check" questions and suggestions: `1. Is this language and this website ready to entertain a 10X to 100X jump in traffic - bugs, questions/bugs, questions/info, argumentation about features, etc by next summer? 2. I think the language is generally well-defined, but I would hate to have it lock-in upward compatibility as a requirement yet. 3. Is there any direct support for Walter for bugfixes and feature enhancements to handle a lot of yelping would-be users? 4. Should the phobos limitations be dealt with immediately? How about startng multiple libraries beyond just phobos to classify, accept, distribute user submissions? They should have varying degrees of stability required for inclusion, and therefore "officialness". Incidentally, phobos MUST be split into basic and OS-dependent libraries, or linux and Solaris and MacOS and ... are going to become a quick hell. I have tried to research this back a bit, but I don't see any benefit to mixing basic and OS-dependent stuff in a single library except that it has been easier to just maintain a single lib. This is not likely to be the case any more. 4. There should be a drop point other than this list (or email to Walter) for contributions of fixes, doc-changes, compiler addins, library addins, specialized libraries or programs. If it's not standardized as a method now, a whole crop of supporting sites with conflicting versions of the same things may well arise. This would not show D well to potential new users, and ALL companies will want "the official versions" - pissing off all concerned. CVS has been mentioned, as SourceForge or other - doesn't matter where, Mars or elsewhere, but the process needs a home. More than it needs bosses, Lars, but that will be needed too - hopefully as welcoming and non-authoritarian as possible. We need knowledgeable people in control, but ones with the time (not me, I'm afraid) to keep things moving well. Hopefully not too much "process" or red-tape - at least for a while yet. 5. There probably should be a feature requests vs. status list somewhere centralized and accessible. Bugzilla possibly, or a Wiki with some locked pages as well as open ones, or ??? Would be nice if something similar for bugs vs. fixes status. The traffic on these will likely not be handled well by the message list, and anyway it's hard to see what has already been proposed or submitted, and what the response was. Having a central status viewing point does not prevent us from requesting a post to the message list about new entries and/or discussions there. 6. The news-group stuff should be pursued, but I agree completely that it's a not-until-full-status-can-be-attained thing. 7. I hate formality, but love appropriate support for appropriate processes. It's a fine line between doing what is needed and establishing unnecessary rules. Let's keep this as open, fair, and productive as possible. -larry
Feb 06 2004
D should have 100% source code compatibility between different operating systems, like Java. Implementation and O/S details must be hidden under the libraries. This is what is the major C++ problem. Having to write once, run everywhere (or rather, compile everywhere in D's case) is what made Java a huge success (and the sheer amount of existing libraries). "larry cowan" <larry_member pathlink.com> wrote in message news:c00vhs$24aq$1 digitaldaemon.com...A few "reality-check" questions and suggestions: `1. Is this language and this website ready to entertain a 10X to 100Xjump intraffic - bugs, questions/bugs, questions/info, argumentation aboutfeatures,etc by next summer? 2. I think the language is generally well-defined, but I would hate tohave itlock-in upward compatibility as a requirement yet. 3. Is there any direct support for Walter for bugfixes and featureenhancementsto handle a lot of yelping would-be users? 4. Should the phobos limitations be dealt with immediately? How aboutstartngmultiple libraries beyond just phobos to classify, accept, distribute user submissions? They should have varying degrees of stability required for inclusion, and therefore "officialness". Incidentally, phobos MUST besplitinto basic and OS-dependent libraries, or linux and Solaris and MacOS and...are going to become a quick hell. I have tried to research this back abit, butI don't see any benefit to mixing basic and OS-dependent stuff in a single library except that it has been easier to just maintain a single lib.This isnot likely to be the case any more. 4. There should be a drop point other than this list (or email to Walter)forcontributions of fixes, doc-changes, compiler addins, library addins, specialized libraries or programs. If it's not standardized as a methodnow, awhole crop of supporting sites with conflicting versions of the samethings maywell arise. This would not show D well to potential new users, and ALL companies will want "the official versions" - pissing off all concerned.CVShas been mentioned, as SourceForge or other - doesn't matter where, Marsorelsewhere, but the process needs a home. More than it needs bosses, Lars,butthat will be needed too - hopefully as welcoming and non-authoritarian as possible. We need knowledgeable people in control, but ones with the time(notme, I'm afraid) to keep things moving well. Hopefully not too much"process" orred-tape - at least for a while yet. 5. There probably should be a feature requests vs. status list somewhere centralized and accessible. Bugzilla possibly, or a Wiki with somelockedpages as well as open ones, or ??? Would be nice if something similar forbugsvs. fixes status. The traffic on these will likely not be handled well bythemessage list, and anyway it's hard to see what has already been proposedorsubmitted, and what the response was. Having a central status viewingpointdoes not prevent us from requesting a post to the message list about newentriesand/or discussions there. 6. The news-group stuff should be pursued, but I agree completely thatit's anot-until-full-status-can-be-attained thing. 7. I hate formality, but love appropriate support for appropriateprocesses.It's a fine line between doing what is needed and establishing unnecessary rules. Let's keep this as open, fair, and productive as possible. -larry
Feb 06 2004
"larry cowan" <larry_member pathlink.com> wrote in message news:c00vhs$24aq$1 digitaldaemon.com...A few "reality-check" questions and suggestions: `1. Is this language and this website ready to entertain a 10X to 100Xjump intraffic - bugs, questions/bugs, questions/info, argumentation aboutfeatures,etc by next summer?Yes. It's done fine even during two slashdottings. Jan Knepper's company hosts the server, which has survived viral attacks, slashdottings, power failures, and at least one assault from the 7th dimension. Rumor has it that during the last slashdotting, the glow from the data pipe feeding it turned night into day.2. I think the language is generally well-defined, but I would hate tohave itlock-in upward compatibility as a requirement yet.1.0 is going to happen shortly.3. Is there any direct support for Walter for bugfixes and featureenhancementsto handle a lot of yelping would-be users?Not sure what you mean here.4. Should the phobos limitations be dealt with immediately? How aboutstartngmultiple libraries beyond just phobos to classify, accept, distribute user submissions? They should have varying degrees of stability required for inclusion, and therefore "officialness". Incidentally, phobos MUST besplitinto basic and OS-dependent libraries, or linux and Solaris and MacOS and...are going to become a quick hell. I have tried to research this back abit, butI don't see any benefit to mixing basic and OS-dependent stuff in a single library except that it has been easier to just maintain a single lib.This isnot likely to be the case any more. 4. There should be a drop point other than this list (or email to Walter)forcontributions of fixes, doc-changes, compiler addins, library addins, specialized libraries or programs. If it's not standardized as a methodnow, awhole crop of supporting sites with conflicting versions of the samethings maywell arise. This would not show D well to potential new users, and ALL companies will want "the official versions" - pissing off all concerned.CVShas been mentioned, as SourceForge or other - doesn't matter where, Marsorelsewhere, but the process needs a home. More than it needs bosses, Lars,butthat will be needed too - hopefully as welcoming and non-authoritarian as possible. We need knowledgeable people in control, but ones with the time(notme, I'm afraid) to keep things moving well. Hopefully not too much"process" orred-tape - at least for a while yet. 5. There probably should be a feature requests vs. status list somewhere centralized and accessible. Bugzilla possibly, or a Wiki with somelockedpages as well as open ones, or ??? Would be nice if something similar forbugsvs. fixes status. The traffic on these will likely not be handled well bythemessage list, and anyway it's hard to see what has already been proposedorsubmitted, and what the response was. Having a central status viewingpointdoes not prevent us from requesting a post to the message list about newentriesand/or discussions there. 6. The news-group stuff should be pursued, but I agree completely thatit's anot-until-full-status-can-be-attained thing. 7. I hate formality, but love appropriate support for appropriateprocesses.It's a fine line between doing what is needed and establishing unnecessary rules. Let's keep this as open, fair, and productive as possible.Something like that will have to be done in the fugure. The current process, while a bit chaotic and random, seems to be serving reasonably well at the moment.
Feb 06 2004
You bring up some important points. Reply embedded... larry cowan wrote:A few "reality-check" questions and suggestions: `1. Is this language and this website ready to entertain a 10X to 100X jump in traffic - bugs, questions/bugs, questions/info, argumentation about features, etc by next summer?I hope so. It seems like there's been a lot of see-how-I-made-the-compiler-fail messages recently. I think these posts are made in good faith. When I first started following this newsgroup many, many months ago, I got the impression that many of the posters didn't actually try out the compiler. There was a lot of discussion about which features would be included in the ultimate programming languge. Now, people are actually trying to do things in D. So we post more messages trying to help Walter squash bugs by showing weaknesses in the compiler. Fortunately, this newsgroup is basically troll-free. Sometimes there's a disagreement about how much the compiler should hold the programmer's hand, but there are a lot of knowledgeable folks around here who want D to succeed. And I think newbies are treated pretty well.2. I think the language is generally well-defined, but I would hate to have it lock-in upward compatibility as a requirement yet.You probably need bring up your specific crticisms ASAP if you want Walter to slow down (or back up). I've already brought up my specific issues with D.3. Is there any direct support for Walter for bugfixes and feature enhancements to handle a lot of yelping would-be users?He sometimes replies that he'll fix stuff. When he does fix it, he replies to the bug author (and sometimes the newsgroup) that it's fixed. Walter would rather spend time improving D that talking about how he's going to improve D.4. Should the phobos limitations be dealt with immediately? How about startng multiple libraries beyond just phobos to classify, accept, distribute user submissions? They should have varying degrees of stability required for inclusion, and therefore "officialness". Incidentally, phobos MUST be split into basic and OS-dependent libraries, or linux and Solaris and MacOS and ... are going to become a quick hell. I have tried to research this back a bit, but I don't see any benefit to mixing basic and OS-dependent stuff in a single library except that it has been easier to just maintain a single lib. This is not likely to be the case any more.I disaggree. It's one lib of source code, but it's compiled twice. One of the goals of D is to be cross-platform. It's hard to have a strong cross-platform library if all of the OS-dependent stuff is removed. Really, what would be left of phobos? Just std.string?4. There should be a drop point other than this list (or email to Walter) for contributions of fixes, doc-changes, compiler addins, library addins, specialized libraries or programs. If it's not standardized as a method now, a whole crop of supporting sites with conflicting versions of the same things may well arise. This would not show D well to potential new users, and ALL companies will want "the official versions" - pissing off all concerned. CVS has been mentioned, as SourceForge or other - doesn't matter where, Mars or elsewhere, but the process needs a home. More than it needs bosses, Lars, but that will be needed too - hopefully as welcoming and non-authoritarian as possible. We need knowledgeable people in control, but ones with the time (not me, I'm afraid) to keep things moving well. Hopefully not too much "process" or red-tape - at least for a while yet.This is a weakness in the state of D right now. I think an even more pressing problem is all of the "stale" code out there (e.g. it worked great with DMD 0.69, but won't even compile since phobos got re-arranged in DMD 0.75). We probably should include a version number and date when we upload code to a website (so if we fall behind with D updates at least a person can tell before he downloads the whole thing).5. There probably should be a feature requests vs. status list somewhere centralized and accessible. Bugzilla possibly, or a Wiki with some locked pages as well as open ones, or ??? Would be nice if something similar for bugs vs. fixes status. The traffic on these will likely not be handled well by the message list, and anyway it's hard to see what has already been proposed or submitted, and what the response was. Having a central status viewing point does not prevent us from requesting a post to the message list about new entries and/or discussions there.I think Bugzilla would be great. I think Walter has some concerns that the Anti-D Militia would make announcements like "look how many unresolved bugs has! Oh, the horror!" (When in reality, their favorite language has many bugs, but their vendor sweeps all the bugs underneath the rug.) There's already a Wiki page set up (it's all open) relating to requested features: http://www.wikiservice.at/d/wiki.cgi?FeatureRequestList It's basically a list of some common (and not-so-common) requests with a link to the newsgroup post where it was requested. I've put some similiar pages on the Wiki for topics that come up repeatedly so that we don't necessarily have the same discussions over and over again. It's a Wiki, so anyone and everyone is encouraged to expand and revise these pages to improve them.6. The news-group stuff should be pursued, but I agree completely that it's a not-until-full-status-can-be-attained thing.The world needs news:comp.lang.d.7. I hate formality, but love appropriate support for appropriate processes. It's a fine line between doing what is needed and establishing unnecessary rules. Let's keep this as open, fair, and productive as possible.Yes.-larry-- Justin http://jcc_7.tripod.com/d/
Feb 06 2004
I think Bugzilla would be great. I think Walter has some concerns that the Anti-D Militia would make announcements like "look how many unresolved bugs has! Oh, the horror!" (When in reality, their favorite language has many bugs, but their vendor sweeps all the bugs underneath the rug.)So true ... and most times they dont even think its a bug just a language restriction ( or a "Thats a poor design" , when most likely , their language is incapable of implementing it , and they cant see past their own noses ) In my D advocacy , ive run into so many people who just refuse to try anything new or keep an open mind , its sad and depressing. There arguing against me , never even having tried the language ... , I tell them to just try it they'll love it , but they just flat refuse. So sad. C "J C Calvarese" <jcc7 cox.net> wrote in message news:c01fje$31d7$1 digitaldaemon.com...You bring up some important points. Reply embedded... larry cowan wrote:jump inA few "reality-check" questions and suggestions: `1. Is this language and this website ready to entertain a 10X to 100Xfeatures,traffic - bugs, questions/bugs, questions/info, argumentation abouthave itetc by next summer?I hope so. It seems like there's been a lot of see-how-I-made-the-compiler-fail messages recently. I think these posts are made in good faith. When I first started following this newsgroup many, many months ago, I got the impression that many of the posters didn't actually try out the compiler. There was a lot of discussion about which features would be included in the ultimate programming languge. Now, people are actually trying to do things in D. So we post more messages trying to help Walter squash bugs by showing weaknesses in the compiler. Fortunately, this newsgroup is basically troll-free. Sometimes there's a disagreement about how much the compiler should hold the programmer's hand, but there are a lot of knowledgeable folks around here who want D to succeed. And I think newbies are treated pretty well.2. I think the language is generally well-defined, but I would hate toenhancementslock-in upward compatibility as a requirement yet.You probably need bring up your specific crticisms ASAP if you want Walter to slow down (or back up). I've already brought up my specific issues with D.3. Is there any direct support for Walter for bugfixes and featurestartngto handle a lot of yelping would-be users?He sometimes replies that he'll fix stuff. When he does fix it, he replies to the bug author (and sometimes the newsgroup) that it's fixed. Walter would rather spend time improving D that talking about how he's going to improve D.4. Should the phobos limitations be dealt with immediately? How aboutusermultiple libraries beyond just phobos to classify, accept, distributesplitsubmissions? They should have varying degrees of stability required for inclusion, and therefore "officialness". Incidentally, phobos MUST beand ...into basic and OS-dependent libraries, or linux and Solaris and MacOSbit, butare going to become a quick hell. I have tried to research this back asingleI don't see any benefit to mixing basic and OS-dependent stuff in aThis islibrary except that it has been easier to just maintain a single lib.Walter) fornot likely to be the case any more.I disaggree. It's one lib of source code, but it's compiled twice. One of the goals of D is to be cross-platform. It's hard to have a strong cross-platform library if all of the OS-dependent stuff is removed. Really, what would be left of phobos? Just std.string?4. There should be a drop point other than this list (or email tonow, acontributions of fixes, doc-changes, compiler addins, library addins, specialized libraries or programs. If it's not standardized as a methodthings maywhole crop of supporting sites with conflicting versions of the sameCVSwell arise. This would not show D well to potential new users, and ALL companies will want "the official versions" - pissing off all concerned.orhas been mentioned, as SourceForge or other - doesn't matter where, MarsLars, butelsewhere, but the process needs a home. More than it needs bosses,asthat will be needed too - hopefully as welcoming and non-authoritariantime (notpossible. We need knowledgeable people in control, but ones with the"process" orme, I'm afraid) to keep things moving well. Hopefully not too muchsomewherered-tape - at least for a while yet.This is a weakness in the state of D right now. I think an even more pressing problem is all of the "stale" code out there (e.g. it worked great with DMD 0.69, but won't even compile since phobos got re-arranged in DMD 0.75). We probably should include a version number and date when we upload code to a website (so if we fall behind with D updates at least a person can tell before he downloads the whole thing).5. There probably should be a feature requests vs. status listlockedcentralized and accessible. Bugzilla possibly, or a Wiki with somefor bugspages as well as open ones, or ??? Would be nice if something similarby thevs. fixes status. The traffic on these will likely not be handled wellormessage list, and anyway it's hard to see what has already been proposedpointsubmitted, and what the response was. Having a central status viewingentriesdoes not prevent us from requesting a post to the message list about newit's aand/or discussions there.I think Bugzilla would be great. I think Walter has some concerns that the Anti-D Militia would make announcements like "look how many unresolved bugs has! Oh, the horror!" (When in reality, their favorite language has many bugs, but their vendor sweeps all the bugs underneath the rug.) There's already a Wiki page set up (it's all open) relating to requested features: http://www.wikiservice.at/d/wiki.cgi?FeatureRequestList It's basically a list of some common (and not-so-common) requests with a link to the newsgroup post where it was requested. I've put some similiar pages on the Wiki for topics that come up repeatedly so that we don't necessarily have the same discussions over and over again. It's a Wiki, so anyone and everyone is encouraged to expand and revise these pages to improve them.6. The news-group stuff should be pursued, but I agree completely thatprocesses.not-until-full-status-can-be-attained thing.The world needs news:comp.lang.d.7. I hate formality, but love appropriate support for appropriateunnecessaryIt's a fine line between doing what is needed and establishingrules. Let's keep this as open, fair, and productive as possible.Yes.-larry-- Justin http://jcc_7.tripod.com/d/
Feb 06 2004
Nevertheless I think nothing beats open-ness. Let vendors have a rug, they can afford it. An open project like D cannot. "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c01g0d$tr$1 digitaldaemon.com...languageI think Bugzilla would be great. I think Walter has some concerns that the Anti-D Militia would make announcements like "look how many unresolved bugs has! Oh, the horror!" (When in reality, their favorite language has many bugs, but their vendor sweeps all the bugs underneath the rug.)So true ... and most times they dont even think its a bug just a language restriction ( or a "Thats a poor design" , when most likely , theiris incapable of implementing it , and they cant see past their own noses ) In my D advocacy , ive run into so many people who just refuse to try anything new or keep an open mind , its sad and depressing. There arguing against me , never even having tried the language ... , I tell them tojusttry it they'll love it , but they just flat refuse. So sad.
Feb 06 2004
C wrote:So true ... and most times they dont even think its a bug just a language restriction ( or a "Thats a poor design" , when most likely , their language is incapable of implementing it , and they cant see past their own noses ) In my D advocacy , ive run into so many people who just refuse to try anything new or keep an open mind , its sad and depressing. There arguing against me , never even having tried the language ... , I tell them to just try it they'll love it , but they just flat refuse. So sad.I just heard about D a few days ago (thanks to a thread Walter is in on the MS STL newsgroup) so I'm still getting up to speed on the language, but on paper it seems like the language I *wish* C++ were. If people discount D out of hand it's probably because they're inexperienced, in which case perhaps they'll come around eventually. For D to become a true alternative to C++ for me though, it's going to need to scale to handle enterprise-level issues. Multiplexed i/o, better thread support, etc. I was going to work on this a bit for Boost but I may do it here instead :p Sean
Feb 06 2004
"Sean Kelly" <sean ffwd.cx> wrote in message news:c01mhe$d5u$1 digitaldaemon.com...C wrote:languageSo true ... and most times they dont even think its a bug just alanguagerestriction ( or a "Thats a poor design" , when most likely , theirnoses )is incapable of implementing it , and they cant see past their ownarguingIn my D advocacy , ive run into so many people who just refuse to try anything new or keep an open mind , its sad and depressing. Therejustagainst me , never even having tried the language ... , I tell them toI'm a simple fellow, and that used to incline me to think that C++ was the undisputed best language. I've just written a book called "Imperfect C++", whose title was more an ironic aside than heartfelt when I started it. Out the other side, I still think it's the current best language, but I now see it as much less perfect looking than I had expected to going into it. Anyway, still being a simple fellow, my new simple rule is that anyone who thinks that any one technology/language/operating-system/whatever is always best is a bit of a dill. :) In any case, playing around with lots of different languages is far more fun than being stuck in a rut with one. It also opens your eyes to new things that you can do with your existing ones. (I invented a mechanism for providing space&speed efficienct properties in C++; Chapter 35 of the "Imperfect C++" <G>) Anyhoo, that's enough blatant self-aggrandisement for one posting. Now to address your other issues ...try it they'll love it , but they just flat refuse. So sad.I just heard about D a few days ago (thanks to a thread Walter is in on the MS STL newsgroup) so I'm still getting up to speed on the language, but on paper it seems like the language I *wish* C++ were. If people discount D out of hand it's probably because they're inexperienced, in which case perhaps they'll come around eventually.For D to become a true alternative to C++ for me though, it's going to need to scale to handle enterprise-level issues. Multiplexed i/o, better thread support, etc. I was going to work on this a bit for Boost but I may do it here instead :pPlease do. I'd love to help out here and there if you get into IO Completion ports. Love those guys! (There's one technology in which MS can genuinely say that Win32 is superior to UNIX. It may be the only one ...) And yes, the threading needs a real strong broom, but it's all doable. Please do make some contributions. At the moment Phobos is missing in several areas, so there's plenty of scope for immortality. Cheers -- Matthew Wilson Director, Synesis Software (www.synesis.com.au) STLSoft moderator (http://www.stlsoft.org) Contributing editor, C/C++ Users Journal (www.synesis.com.au/articles.html#columns) -----------------------------------------------------
Feb 06 2004
"Sean Kelly" <sean ffwd.cx> wrote in message news:c01mhe$d5u$1 digitaldaemon.com...I just heard about D a few days ago (thanks to a thread Walter is in on the MS STL newsgroup)It's microsoft.public.vc.stl for anyone interested in it.so I'm still getting up to speed on the language, but on paper it seems like the language I *wish* C++ were.You hit the nail on the head with that. That's exactly the motivation behind D. I love what I can do with C++, but its flaws are so many it inspires me, as an engineer, to fix them.If people discount D out of hand it's probably because they're inexperienced, in which case perhaps they'll come around eventually. For D to become a true alternative to C++ for me though, it's going to need to scale to handle enterprise-level issues. Multiplexed i/o, better thread support, etc. I was going to work on this a bit for Boost but I may do it here instead :pWe'd love to have your help here.
Feb 06 2004
For D to become a true alternative to C++ for me though, it's going to need to scale to handle enterprise-level issues.I completely agree, for me it also needs more library support. For me to use it at work i need a libcurl like library ( http://curl.haxx.se ).I was going to work on this a bit for Boost but I may do it here instead :pI hope so! C "Sean Kelly" <sean ffwd.cx> wrote in message news:c01mhe$d5u$1 digitaldaemon.com...C wrote:languageSo true ... and most times they dont even think its a bug just alanguagerestriction ( or a "Thats a poor design" , when most likely , theirnoses )is incapable of implementing it , and they cant see past their ownarguingIn my D advocacy , ive run into so many people who just refuse to try anything new or keep an open mind , its sad and depressing. Therejustagainst me , never even having tried the language ... , I tell them totry it they'll love it , but they just flat refuse. So sad.I just heard about D a few days ago (thanks to a thread Walter is in on the MS STL newsgroup) so I'm still getting up to speed on the language, but on paper it seems like the language I *wish* C++ were. If people discount D out of hand it's probably because they're inexperienced, in which case perhaps they'll come around eventually. For D to become a true alternative to C++ for me though, it's going to need to scale to handle enterprise-level issues. Multiplexed i/o, better thread support, etc. I was going to work on this a bit for Boost but I may do it here instead :p Sean
Feb 07 2004
"C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c03i1s$tor$1 digitaldaemon.com...I completely agree, for me it also needs more library support. For me to use it at work i need a libcurl like library ( http://curl.haxx.se ).Since libcurl is a C library, a D wrapper for it should be pretty easy. Want to give it a try?
Feb 07 2004
I have tried in the past , i took the approach of building the .dll in VC , and using implib to create a .lib. I got it to compile , but it failed on startup , with .. I forget the error. Its been a couple months though , Ill give it another go around. I also need to re-read the C to D section, I've forgotten how D handles memory allocated from within C functions :/. C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c03nfs$178v$1 digitaldaemon.com..."C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c03i1s$tor$1 digitaldaemon.com...toI completely agree, for me it also needs more library support. For meWantuse it at work i need a libcurl like library ( http://curl.haxx.se ).Since libcurl is a C library, a D wrapper for it should be pretty easy.to give it a try?
Feb 07 2004
You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compiler into a lib. This is the easiest. After you get it to work within a simple DigitalMars C or C++ program, the step to D would be trivial and any failure would be easy to diagnose. -eye C wrote:I have tried in the past , i took the approach of building the .dll in VC , and using implib to create a .lib. I got it to compile , but it failed on startup , with .. I forget the error. Its been a couple months though , Ill give it another go around. I also need to re-read the C to D section, I've forgotten how D handles memory allocated from within C functions :/. C
Feb 07 2004
"Ilya Minkov" <minkov cs.tum.edu> wrote in message news:c03r5f$1bf7$1 digitaldaemon.com...You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compiler into a lib. This is the easiest. After you get it to work within a simple DigitalMars C or C++ program, the step to D would be trivial and any failure would be easy to diagnose.Yes, a static lib. I'd forget about making a curl dll for this project.
Feb 07 2004
Ok , the api wrappers are at www.atari-soldiers.com/curl.d . Compiled and tested with linux , ill work on compiling with dmc for windows. Im working on some OO wrappers ill post shortly. Here is the simple.d example : import curl; import std.c.stdio; import std.string; alias std.string.toStringz c_str; int main() { CURL *curl; CURLcode res; curl = curl_easy_init(); if(curl) { curl_easy_setopt(curl, CURLOPT_URL, c_str("www.digitalmars.com")); res = curl_easy_perform(curl); /* always cleanup */ curl_easy_cleanup(curl); } return 0; } If you havent used libcurl you should check it out , its very cool .( http://curl.haxx.se ) C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c04708$1vv1$1 digitaldaemon.com..."Ilya Minkov" <minkov cs.tum.edu> wrote in message news:c03r5f$1bf7$1 digitaldaemon.com...diagnose.You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compiler into a lib. This is the easiest. After you get it to work within a simple DigitalMars C or C++ program, the step to D would be trivial and any failure would be easy toYes, a static lib. I'd forget about making a curl dll for this project.
Feb 08 2004
That was fast! Could you let the curl guys know so they can put a link up at http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/ for the D bindings? "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c0706q$e9v$1 digitaldaemon.com...Ok , the api wrappers are at www.atari-soldiers.com/curl.d . Compiled and tested with linux , ill work on compiling with dmc for windows. Im working on some OO wrappers ill post shortly. Here is the simple.d example : import curl; import std.c.stdio; import std.string; alias std.string.toStringz c_str; int main() { CURL *curl; CURLcode res; curl = curl_easy_init(); if(curl) { curl_easy_setopt(curl, CURLOPT_URL, c_str("www.digitalmars.com")); res = curl_easy_perform(curl); /* always cleanup */ curl_easy_cleanup(curl); } return 0; } If you havent used libcurl you should check it out , its very cool .( http://curl.haxx.se ) C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c04708$1vv1$1 digitaldaemon.com...This"Ilya Minkov" <minkov cs.tum.edu> wrote in message news:c03r5f$1bf7$1 digitaldaemon.com...You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compiler into a lib.diagnose.is the easiest. After you get it to work within a simple DigitalMars C or C++ program, the step to D would be trivial and any failure would be easy toYes, a static lib. I'd forget about making a curl dll for this project.
Feb 08 2004
Yep already sent ( on the mailing list ) ;). C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c0776m$qc5$1 digitaldaemon.com...That was fast! Could you let the curl guys know so they can put a link upathttp://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/ for the D bindings? "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c0706q$e9v$1 digitaldaemon.com...andOk , the api wrappers are at www.atari-soldiers.com/curl.d . Compiledprogram,tested with linux , ill work on compiling with dmc for windows. Im working on some OO wrappers ill post shortly. Here is the simple.d example : import curl; import std.c.stdio; import std.string; alias std.string.toStringz c_str; int main() { CURL *curl; CURLcode res; curl = curl_easy_init(); if(curl) { curl_easy_setopt(curl, CURLOPT_URL, c_str("www.digitalmars.com")); res = curl_easy_perform(curl); /* always cleanup */ curl_easy_cleanup(curl); } return 0; } If you havent used libcurl you should check it out , its very cool .( http://curl.haxx.se ) C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c04708$1vv1$1 digitaldaemon.com...This"Ilya Minkov" <minkov cs.tum.edu> wrote in message news:c03r5f$1bf7$1 digitaldaemon.com...You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compiler into a lib.is the easiest. After you get it to work within a simple DigitalMars C or C++project.diagnose.the step to D would be trivial and any failure would be easy toYes, a static lib. I'd forget about making a curl dll for this
Feb 09 2004
Were you also able to build curl with dmc++? "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c077jd$que$1 digitaldaemon.com...Yep already sent ( on the mailing list ) ;). C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c0776m$qc5$1 digitaldaemon.com...upThat was fast! Could you let the curl guys know so they can put a linkathttp://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/ for the D bindings? "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c0706q$e9v$1 digitaldaemon.com...andOk , the api wrappers are at www.atari-soldiers.com/curl.d . Compiledprogram,tested with linux , ill work on compiling with dmc for windows. Im working on some OO wrappers ill post shortly. Here is the simple.d example : import curl; import std.c.stdio; import std.string; alias std.string.toStringz c_str; int main() { CURL *curl; CURLcode res; curl = curl_easy_init(); if(curl) { curl_easy_setopt(curl, CURLOPT_URL, c_str("www.digitalmars.com")); res = curl_easy_perform(curl); /* always cleanup */ curl_easy_cleanup(curl); } return 0; } If you havent used libcurl you should check it out , its very cool .( http://curl.haxx.se ) C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c04708$1vv1$1 digitaldaemon.com...This"Ilya Minkov" <minkov cs.tum.edu> wrote in message news:c03r5f$1bf7$1 digitaldaemon.com...You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compiler into a lib.is the easiest. After you get it to work within a simple DigitalMars C or C++project.diagnose.the step to D would be trivial and any failure would be easy toYes, a static lib. I'd forget about making a curl dll for this
Feb 08 2004
Not yet, I tried a couple months back , and the pre-proccessor seems to proccess the files correctly only if it was in C++ mode , but the libcurl code contains C++ keywords it would need to be ansi-c. I will try soon , unfortunately I only use linux at work ( I billed the time working on it ) ) , and Im moving so it might be a while. C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c07efa$158j$1 digitaldaemon.com...Were you also able to build curl with dmc++? "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c077jd$que$1 digitaldaemon.com...CompiledYep already sent ( on the mailing list ) ;). C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c0776m$qc5$1 digitaldaemon.com...upThat was fast! Could you let the curl guys know so they can put a linkathttp://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/ for the D bindings? "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c0706q$e9v$1 digitaldaemon.com...Ok , the api wrappers are at www.atari-soldiers.com/curl.d ..(andtested with linux , ill work on compiling with dmc for windows. Im working on some OO wrappers ill post shortly. Here is the simple.d example : import curl; import std.c.stdio; import std.string; alias std.string.toStringz c_str; int main() { CURL *curl; CURLcode res; curl = curl_easy_init(); if(curl) { curl_easy_setopt(curl, CURLOPT_URL, c_str("www.digitalmars.com")); res = curl_easy_perform(curl); /* always cleanup */ curl_easy_cleanup(curl); } return 0; } If you havent used libcurl you should check it out , its very coollib.http://curl.haxx.se ) C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c04708$1vv1$1 digitaldaemon.com..."Ilya Minkov" <minkov cs.tum.edu> wrote in message news:c03r5f$1bf7$1 digitaldaemon.com...You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compiler into aThisprogram,is the easiest. After you get it to work within a simple DigitalMars C or C++project.diagnose.the step to D would be trivial and any failure would be easy toYes, a static lib. I'd forget about making a curl dll for this
Feb 09 2004
"C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c07ers$16aj$1 digitaldaemon.com...Not yet, I tried a couple months back , and the pre-proccessor seems to proccess the files correctly only if it was in C++ mode , but the libcurl code contains C++ keywords it would need to be ansi-c. I will try soon , unfortunately I only use linux at work ( I billed the time working on it ) ) , and Im moving so it might be a while.Dude! Amusing as it is to read, do you really want this publicly and permanently accessible?!C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c07efa$158j$1 digitaldaemon.com...linkWere you also able to build curl with dmc++? "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c077jd$que$1 digitaldaemon.com...Yep already sent ( on the mailing list ) ;). C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c0776m$qc5$1 digitaldaemon.com...That was fast! Could you let the curl guys know so they can put ac_str("www.digitalmars.com"));upCompiledathttp://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/ for the D bindings? "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c0706q$e9v$1 digitaldaemon.com...Ok , the api wrappers are at www.atari-soldiers.com/curl.d .andtested with linux , ill work on compiling with dmc for windows. Im working on some OO wrappers ill post shortly. Here is the simple.d example : import curl; import std.c.stdio; import std.string; alias std.string.toStringz c_str; int main() { CURL *curl; CURLcode res; curl = curl_easy_init(); if(curl) { curl_easy_setopt(curl, CURLOPT_URL,to.(res = curl_easy_perform(curl); /* always cleanup */ curl_easy_cleanup(curl); } return 0; } If you havent used libcurl you should check it out , its very coollib.http://curl.haxx.se ) C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c04708$1vv1$1 digitaldaemon.com..."Ilya Minkov" <minkov cs.tum.edu> wrote in message news:c03r5f$1bf7$1 digitaldaemon.com...You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compiler into aThisprogram,is the easiest. After you get it to work within a simple DigitalMars C or C++the step to D would be trivial and any failure would be easyproject.diagnose.Yes, a static lib. I'd forget about making a curl dll for this
Feb 09 2004
What my inability to get libcurl compiled ( actually I found the old makefile and am working on it )? Or if its the billing thing I got apporval before hand of course :P. C "Matthew" <matthew.hat stlsoft.dot.org> wrote in message news:c07m23$1k0i$1 digitaldaemon.com..."C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c07ers$16aj$1 digitaldaemon.com...libcurlNot yet, I tried a couple months back , and the pre-proccessor seems to proccess the files correctly only if it was in C++ mode , but the,code contains C++ keywords it would need to be ansi-c. I will try soonitunfortunately I only use linux at work ( I billed the time working oncool) ) , and Im moving so it might be a while.Dude! Amusing as it is to read, do you really want this publicly and permanently accessible?!C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c07efa$158j$1 digitaldaemon.com...linkWere you also able to build curl with dmc++? "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c077jd$que$1 digitaldaemon.com...Yep already sent ( on the mailing list ) ;). C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c0776m$qc5$1 digitaldaemon.com...That was fast! Could you let the curl guys know so they can put ac_str("www.digitalmars.com"));upCompiledathttp://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/ for the D bindings? "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c0706q$e9v$1 digitaldaemon.com...Ok , the api wrappers are at www.atari-soldiers.com/curl.d .andtested with linux , ill work on compiling with dmc for windows. Im working on some OO wrappers ill post shortly. Here is the simple.d example : import curl; import std.c.stdio; import std.string; alias std.string.toStringz c_str; int main() { CURL *curl; CURLcode res; curl = curl_easy_init(); if(curl) { curl_easy_setopt(curl, CURLOPT_URL,res = curl_easy_perform(curl); /* always cleanup */ curl_easy_cleanup(curl); } return 0; } If you havent used libcurl you should check it out , its verya.(http://curl.haxx.se ) C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c04708$1vv1$1 digitaldaemon.com..."Ilya Minkov" <minkov cs.tum.edu> wrote in message news:c03r5f$1bf7$1 digitaldaemon.com...You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compiler intoC++lib.Thisis the easiest. After you get it to work within a simple DigitalMars C ortoprogram,the step to D would be trivial and any failure would be easyproject.diagnose.Yes, a static lib. I'd forget about making a curl dll for this
Feb 09 2004
Or if its the billing thing I got apporval before hand of course :P.My mistake. Any imputations to your character utterly retracted. :)C "Matthew" <matthew.hat stlsoft.dot.org> wrote in message news:c07m23$1k0i$1 digitaldaemon.com...to"C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c07ers$16aj$1 digitaldaemon.com...Not yet, I tried a couple months back , and the pre-proccessor seemssoonlibcurlproccess the files correctly only if it was in C++ mode , but thecode contains C++ keywords it would need to be ansi-c. I will try,aitunfortunately I only use linux at work ( I billed the time working on) ) , and Im moving so it might be a while.Dude! Amusing as it is to read, do you really want this publicly and permanently accessible?!C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c07efa$158j$1 digitaldaemon.com...Were you also able to build curl with dmc++? "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c077jd$que$1 digitaldaemon.com...Yep already sent ( on the mailing list ) ;). C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c0776m$qc5$1 digitaldaemon.com...That was fast! Could you let the curl guys know so they can putwindows.linkupCompiledathttp://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/ for the D bindings? "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c0706q$e9v$1 digitaldaemon.com...Ok , the api wrappers are at www.atari-soldiers.com/curl.d .andtested with linux , ill work on compiling with dmc forintocoolc_str("www.digitalmars.com"));Im working on some OO wrappers ill post shortly. Here is the simple.d example : import curl; import std.c.stdio; import std.string; alias std.string.toStringz c_str; int main() { CURL *curl; CURLcode res; curl = curl_easy_init(); if(curl) { curl_easy_setopt(curl, CURLOPT_URL,res = curl_easy_perform(curl); /* always cleanup */ curl_easy_cleanup(curl); } return 0; } If you havent used libcurl you should check it out , its very.(http://curl.haxx.se ) C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c04708$1vv1$1 digitaldaemon.com..."Ilya Minkov" <minkov cs.tum.edu> wrote in message news:c03r5f$1bf7$1 digitaldaemon.com...You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compileraeasyC++lib.Thisis the easiest. After you get it to work within a simple DigitalMars C orprogram,the step to D would be trivial and any failure would bethistodiagnose.Yes, a static lib. I'd forget about making a curl dll forproject.
Feb 09 2004
"C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c07ers$16aj$1 digitaldaemon.com...Not yet, I tried a couple months back , and the pre-proccessor seems to proccess the files correctly only if it was in C++ mode , but the libcurl code contains C++ keywords it would need to be ansi-c. I will try soon , unfortunately I only use linux at work ( I billed the time working on it ) ) , and Im moving so it might be a while.There was an issue with the preprocessor that was preventing boost from compiling that is fixed in 8.39 (insertion of extra spaces in concatenated strings). Was that it?
Feb 09 2004
Yea thats probably it , they use these macros to define their options #define number #define Cool that will make it easier. C "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:c08nmm$s2a$1 digitaldaemon.com..."C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c07ers$16aj$1 digitaldaemon.com...libcurlNot yet, I tried a couple months back , and the pre-proccessor seems to proccess the files correctly only if it was in C++ mode , but the,code contains C++ keywords it would need to be ansi-c. I will try soonitunfortunately I only use linux at work ( I billed the time working on) ) , and Im moving so it might be a while.There was an issue with the preprocessor that was preventing boost from compiling that is fixed in 8.39 (insertion of extra spaces in concatenated strings). Was that it?
Feb 09 2004
"C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c0906k$1add$1 digitaldaemon.com...Yea thats probably it , they use these macros to define their options #define number #define Cool that will make it easier.Rock on!
Feb 09 2004
Hmm ok. I got it to compile , needed to change ftp.c , there was a variable named 'try' , and to compile the example , easycurl.h includes winnt.h , there was an error with typdef long LONG; changed to #define LONG long; and it works ok. However when the sample is run it crashes inexplicably. I ran it through the debugger ( by the way if anyone doesnt have the CD they should get it for the debugger alone its very useful ) , seems its crashing on curl_easy_perform . Here's the Call window, main curl_easy_perform Curl_perform Curl_connect <-- crashing , calling CreateConnection . CreateConnection is in url.c , and is huge. Ive posted the libcurl build at www.atari-soldiers.com/libcurlDMC.zip . It should build without a problem , youll probably need to change those lines in WINNT.h though. The makefile is Makefile.dmc , make -f Makefile.dmc should do the trick. Everyone that can help please do! Thanks, Charlie "Ilya Minkov" <minkov cs.tum.edu> wrote in message news:c03r5f$1bf7$1 digitaldaemon.com...You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compiler into a lib. This is the easiest. After you get it to work within a simple DigitalMars C or C++ program, the step to D would be trivial and any failure would be easy to diagnose. -eye C wrote:VC ,I have tried in the past , i took the approach of building the .dll inonand using implib to create a .lib. I got it to compile , but it failedIllstartup , with .. I forget the error. Its been a couple months though ,give it another go around. I also need to re-read the C to D section, I've forgotten how D handles memory allocated from within C functions :/. C
Feb 10 2004
Just to be clear here, im trying to compile simple.c , trying to get the libcurl to play with DMC. C "C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c0bet1$298o$1 digitaldaemon.com...Hmm ok. I got it to compile , needed to change ftp.c , there was avariablenamed 'try' , and to compile the example , easycurl.h includes winnt.h , there was an error with typdef long LONG; changed to #define LONG long; and it works ok. However when the sample is run it crashes inexplicably.Iran it through the debugger ( by the way if anyone doesnt have the CD they should get it for the debugger alone its very useful ) , seems itscrashingon curl_easy_perform . Here's the Call window, main curl_easy_perform Curl_perform Curl_connect <-- crashing , calling CreateConnection . CreateConnection is in url.c , and is huge. Ive posted the libcurl build at www.atari-soldiers.com/libcurlDMC.zip .Itshould build without a problem , youll probably need to change those lines in WINNT.h though. The makefile is Makefile.dmc , make -f Makefile.dmc should do the trick. Everyone that can help please do! Thanks, Charlie "Ilya Minkov" <minkov cs.tum.edu> wrote in message news:c03r5f$1bf7$1 digitaldaemon.com...diagnose.You may want to compile it with DigitalMars C compiler into a lib. This is the easiest. After you get it to work within a simple DigitalMars C or C++ program, the step to D would be trivial and any failure would be easy tofailed-eye C wrote:VC ,I have tried in the past , i took the approach of building the .dll inand using implib to create a .lib. I got it to compile , but iton,startup , with .. I forget the error. Its been a couple months thoughIllhandlesgive it another go around. I also need to re-read the C to D section, I've forgotten how Dmemory allocated from within C functions :/. C
Feb 10 2004
"C" <dont respond.com> wrote in message news:c01g0d$tr$1 digitaldaemon.com...So true ... and most times they dont even think its a bug just a language restriction ( or a "Thats a poor design" , when most likely , theirlanguageis incapable of implementing it , and they cant see past their own noses ) In my D advocacy , ive run into so many people who just refuse to try anything new or keep an open mind , its sad and depressing. There arguing against me , never even having tried the language ... , I tell them tojusttry it they'll love it , but they just flat refuse. So sad.That fits right in line with the demographics of D users being younger programmers. I ain't so young anymore (my father fought in the Civil War, ya know <g>), but I'm having more fun with this project than anything I've done in the past. The huge response D is getting, as evidenced here, is more than justifying my confidence that D's future is unlimited.
Feb 06 2004
"J C Calvarese" <jcc7 cox.net> wrote in message news:c01fje$31d7$1 digitaldaemon.com...It seems like there's been a lot of see-how-I-made-the-compiler-fail messages recently. I think these posts are made in good faith.Yes, they are. I can't think of a single example otherwise.When I first started following this newsgroup many, many months ago, I got the impression that many of the posters didn't actually try out the compiler. There was a lot of discussion about which features would be included in the ultimate programming languge. Now, people are actually trying to do things in D. So we post more messages trying to help Walter squash bugs by showing weaknesses in the compiler.Absolutely right. If nobody was posting bugs, that's a sure sign nobody is using it. I fix them one by one, and add the resulting test cases to the test suite so it will never happen again. The result is an ever stronger compiler backed by an ever more thorough QA program.This is a weakness in the state of D right now. I think an even more pressing problem is all of the "stale" code out there (e.g. it worked great with DMD 0.69, but won't even compile since phobos got re-arranged in DMD 0.75). We probably should include a version number and date when we upload code to a website (so if we fall behind with D updates at least a person can tell before he downloads the whole thing).I knew that would happen and dreaded doing it, but the the rearrangement had to happen, and the sooner the better. I hope that is all behind us now.I think Bugzilla would be great. I think Walter has some concerns that the Anti-D Militia would make announcements like "look how many unresolved bugs has! Oh, the horror!" (When in reality, their favorite language has many bugs, but their vendor sweeps all the bugs underneath the rug.)I published a carefully documented bug list once in the past. It was a disaster.
Feb 06 2004
In article <c00vhs$24aq$1 digitaldaemon.com>, larry cowan says...2. I think the language is generally well-defined, but I would hate to have it lock-in upward compatibility as a requirement yet.Any language can add or deprecate features over it's "lifetime" but I think it is time for D to establish a first standard "D 2004" much like other languages have done Fortran 1977, C 1989, C++ 1998 etc. This would allow other vendors and targets to be established. I really like D, but I'm in the embedded world and at work we mostly use PowerPC and ARM. It would be nice to see Greenhills release a D compiler. The embedded tool vendors tend to be much more risk adverse and they probably won't bite until D is reasonably established in the non-embedded world. I think a lot of people confuse the DMD implementation which may or may not have a particular bug with the D language itself.
Feb 08 2004