D - Longhorn
- Albin Pucnik <albin.pucnik guest.arnes.si> Oct 29 2003
- "J. Daniel Smith" <J_Daniel_Smith HoTMaiL.com> Oct 29 2003
- Albin Pucnik <albin.pucnik guest.arnes.si> Oct 29 2003
- "Lars Ivar Igesund" <larsivi stud.ntnu.no> Oct 29 2003
- The Lone Haranguer <The_member pathlink.com> Oct 29 2003
- Patrick Down <Patrick_member pathlink.com> Oct 29 2003
- "Christian Kaiser" <chk online.de> Oct 29 2003
- "Lars Ivar Igesund" <larsivi stud.ntnu.no> Oct 29 2003
- "Matthew Wilson" <matthew-hat -stlsoft-dot.-org> Oct 29 2003
- "Achilleas Margaritis" <axilmar in.gr> Oct 29 2003
- davepermen <davepermen_member pathlink.com> Oct 29 2003
- "Lars Ivar Igesund" <larsivi stud.ntnu.no> Oct 29 2003
- "Matthew Wilson" <matthew-hat -stlsoft-dot.-org> Oct 29 2003
- "Julio César Carrascal Urquijo" <adnoctum phreaker.net> Oct 29 2003
- "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> Oct 29 2003
- "C. Sauls" <ibisbasenji yahoo.com> Nov 10 2003
Hi! It looks like Microsoft is moving ( with its new operating system codename Longhorn) to completely managed code( see reports from their PDC). What does that mean for D? Will D compilers translate code to MSIL(microsoft intermediate language) to be excecuted by their virtual machine (CLR)? Albin
Oct 29 2003
"completely managed code" isn't true, but Longhorn clearly increases the focus on managed code even more. D has been designed as a "systems" language (a "replacement" for traditional C/C++). MSIL/CLR/.NET has been suggested before, but seems to be against the "systems" nature of D. Dan "Albin Pucnik" <albin.pucnik guest.arnes.si> wrote in message news:bno9i3$2cd$1 digitaldaemon.com...Hi! It looks like Microsoft is moving ( with its new operating system codename Longhorn) to completely managed code( see reports from their PDC). What does that mean for D? Will D compilers translate code to MSIL(microsoft intermediate language) to be excecuted by their virtual machine (CLR)? Albin
Oct 29 2003
So there is no place for D in the managed world of Longhorn? Bine J. Daniel Smith wrote:"completely managed code" isn't true, but Longhorn clearly increases the focus on managed code even more. D has been designed as a "systems" language (a "replacement" for traditional C/C++). MSIL/CLR/.NET has been suggested before, but seems to be against the "systems" nature of D. Dan
Oct 29 2003
A managed version of D is probably doable with enough resources. His point I guess, is that managed code don't sound like it's any good for the efficiency necessary for a systems language. I haven't read anything about Longhorn yet, so I should probably not comment any further. But I can't let go; It would probably be excessively stupid by MS to drop support for their C API with 10+ years of legacy application code. Lars Ivar Igesund "Albin Pucnik" <albin.pucnik guest.arnes.si> wrote in message news:bnonf7$l90$1 digitaldaemon.com...So there is no place for D in the managed world of Longhorn? Bine J. Daniel Smith wrote:"completely managed code" isn't true, but Longhorn clearly increases the focus on managed code even more. D has been designed as a "systems" language (a "replacement" for
C/C++). MSIL/CLR/.NET has been suggested before, but seems to be
the "systems" nature of D. Dan
Oct 29 2003
The Lone Haranguer <The_member pathlink.com> It may also be stupid for MS to create an OS that can't be booted to a command-prompt interface. In article <bnoo2j$m3f$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Lars Ivar Igesund says...A managed version of D is probably doable with enough resources. His point I guess, is that managed code don't sound like it's any good for the efficiency necessary for a systems language. I haven't read anything about Longhorn yet, so I should probably not comment any further. But I can't let go; It would probably be excessively stupid by MS to drop support for their C API with 10+ years of legacy application code. Lars Ivar Igesund "Albin Pucnik" <albin.pucnik guest.arnes.si> wrote in message news:bnonf7$l90$1 digitaldaemon.com...So there is no place for D in the managed world of Longhorn? Bine J. Daniel Smith wrote:"completely managed code" isn't true, but Longhorn clearly increases the focus on managed code even more. D has been designed as a "systems" language (a "replacement" for
C/C++). MSIL/CLR/.NET has been suggested before, but seems to be
the "systems" nature of D. Dan
Oct 29 2003
In article <bnoo2j$m3f$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Lars Ivar Igesund says...A managed version of D is probably doable with enough resources. His point I guess, is that managed code don't sound like it's any good for the efficiency necessary for a systems language. I haven't read anything about Longhorn yet, so I should probably not comment any further. But I can't let go; It would probably be excessively stupid by MS to drop support for their C API with 10+ years of legacy application code.
I agree with this. Probably the upper layers like the shell will be written in managed code. But I can't imagine that the low level stuff would not have have C APIs.
Oct 29 2003
You should not underestimate the efficiency of C# and the CLR. Comparisons (in windows::developer network) show that it can be much more efficient than current c or C++ - depending on the quality of the libraries etc. Ch. "Lars Ivar Igesund" <larsivi stud.ntnu.no> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:bnoo2j$m3f$1 digitaldaemon.com...A managed version of D is probably doable with enough resources. His point I guess, is that managed code don't sound like it's any good for the efficiency necessary for a systems language. I haven't read anything about Longhorn yet, so I should probably not comment any further. But I can't let go; It would probably be excessively stupid by MS to drop support for their C API with 10+ years of legacy application code. Lars Ivar Igesund "Albin Pucnik" <albin.pucnik guest.arnes.si> wrote in message news:bnonf7$l90$1 digitaldaemon.com...So there is no place for D in the managed world of Longhorn? Bine J. Daniel Smith wrote:"completely managed code" isn't true, but Longhorn clearly increases
focus on managed code even more. D has been designed as a "systems" language (a "replacement" for
C/C++). MSIL/CLR/.NET has been suggested before, but seems to be
the "systems" nature of D. Dan
Oct 29 2003
"Christian Kaiser" <chk online.de> wrote in message news:bnotsj$uhi$1 digitaldaemon.com...You should not underestimate the efficiency of C# and the CLR. Comparisons (in windows::developer network) show that it can be much more efficient
current c or C++ - depending on the quality of the libraries etc.
Well, the guys at MicroSoft says the darndest things ;) Lars Ivar Igesund who won't pretend to know much about the managed code stuff
Oct 29 2003
Hey! That was my study. :) And I did not read the results to say that C# was good enough for the implementation of operating systems. If that's what they're suggesting, I find that both scary and ridiculous, and I'll be spending more time on my Linux box "Christian Kaiser" <chk online.de> wrote in message news:bnotsj$uhi$1 digitaldaemon.com...You should not underestimate the efficiency of C# and the CLR. Comparisons (in windows::developer network) show that it can be much more efficient
current c or C++ - depending on the quality of the libraries etc. Ch. "Lars Ivar Igesund" <larsivi stud.ntnu.no> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:bnoo2j$m3f$1 digitaldaemon.com...A managed version of D is probably doable with enough resources. His point I guess, is that managed code don't sound like it's any good
the efficiency necessary for a systems language. I haven't read anything about Longhorn yet, so I should probably not comment any further. But I can't let go; It would probably be excessively stupid by MS to drop support for their C API with 10+ years of legacy application code. Lars Ivar Igesund "Albin Pucnik" <albin.pucnik guest.arnes.si> wrote in message news:bnonf7$l90$1 digitaldaemon.com...So there is no place for D in the managed world of Longhorn? Bine J. Daniel Smith wrote:"completely managed code" isn't true, but Longhorn clearly increases
focus on managed code even more. D has been designed as a "systems" language (a "replacement" for
C/C++). MSIL/CLR/.NET has been suggested before, but seems to be
the "systems" nature of D. Dan
Oct 29 2003
Hehe i read that too. I was kind of mad after that, I hate VM's ( dont take away my arguments! ) C "Matthew Wilson" <matthew-hat -stlsoft-dot.-org> wrote in message news:bnp7ev$1ct2$1 digitaldaemon.com...Hey! That was my study. :) And I did not read the results to say that C# was good enough for the implementation of operating systems. If that's what they're suggesting, I find that both scary and ridiculous, and I'll be spending more time on my Linux box "Christian Kaiser" <chk online.de> wrote in message news:bnotsj$uhi$1 digitaldaemon.com...You should not underestimate the efficiency of C# and the CLR.
(in windows::developer network) show that it can be much more efficient
current c or C++ - depending on the quality of the libraries etc. Ch. "Lars Ivar Igesund" <larsivi stud.ntnu.no> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:bnoo2j$m3f$1 digitaldaemon.com...A managed version of D is probably doable with enough resources. His point I guess, is that managed code don't sound like it's any good
the efficiency necessary for a systems language. I haven't read
about Longhorn yet, so I should probably not comment any further. But I can't let go; It would probably be excessively stupid by MS to drop support for their C API with 10+ years of legacy application code. Lars Ivar Igesund "Albin Pucnik" <albin.pucnik guest.arnes.si> wrote in message news:bnonf7$l90$1 digitaldaemon.com...So there is no place for D in the managed world of Longhorn? Bine J. Daniel Smith wrote:"completely managed code" isn't true, but Longhorn clearly
thefocus on managed code even more. D has been designed as a "systems" language (a "replacement" for
C/C++). MSIL/CLR/.NET has been suggested before, but seems to be
the "systems" nature of D. Dan
Nov 01 2003
If D is a "systems" language, why does it have garbage collection (that can't be turned off) ? It does not seem that I can make an O/S using D... "J. Daniel Smith" <J_Daniel_Smith HoTMaiL.com> wrote in message news:bnogok$c1j$1 digitaldaemon.com..."completely managed code" isn't true, but Longhorn clearly increases the focus on managed code even more. D has been designed as a "systems" language (a "replacement" for
C/C++). MSIL/CLR/.NET has been suggested before, but seems to be against the "systems" nature of D. Dan "Albin Pucnik" <albin.pucnik guest.arnes.si> wrote in message news:bno9i3$2cd$1 digitaldaemon.com...Hi! It looks like Microsoft is moving ( with its new operating system codename Longhorn) to completely managed code( see reports from their PDC). What does that mean for D? Will D compilers translate code to MSIL(microsoft intermediate language) to be excecuted by their virtual machine (CLR)? Albin
Oct 29 2003
In article <bnot23$tgg$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Achilleas Margaritis says...If D is a "systems" language, why does it have garbage collection (that can't be turned off) ? It does not seem that I can make an O/S using D...
d. import gc; gc.disable(); gc.enable(); and for most stuff, even system stuff, gc is not something hurting at all. a potential memory leak is much more hurting. think of some service you set up that runs 24/7 and happens to leak memory on say a daily basis.. have fun debugging while waiting several days each time to actually measure that you leaked.. even microsoft is not sure yet how to bugfix exchange 2000 to not leak anymore and eat up ram more and more. system level stuff has to be good performing, sure. but it definitely have to be save. thats priority and THE reason why the gc is around everything. savety.
Oct 29 2003
"davepermen" <davepermen_member pathlink.com> wrote in message news:bnov1j$104l$1 digitaldaemon.com...In article <bnot23$tgg$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Achilleas Margaritis says...If D is a "systems" language, why does it have garbage collection (that can't be turned off) ? It does not seem that I can make an O/S using D...
d. import gc; gc.disable(); gc.enable();
Also, you can plug in your own gc. Or shut it down and overload the new operator and implement it using C's malloc, or even implement it using assembler. The choice is yours. It can all be done with D. Lars Ivar Igesund
Oct 29 2003
I've not used it, so don't know, but I presume the disable() / enable() are reference counted, and only when the rc is 0 is it on? If that's not how it works, it should be "davepermen" <davepermen_member pathlink.com> wrote in message news:bnov1j$104l$1 digitaldaemon.com...In article <bnot23$tgg$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Achilleas Margaritis says...If D is a "systems" language, why does it have garbage collection (that can't be turned off) ? It does not seem that I can make an O/S using D...
d. import gc; gc.disable(); gc.enable(); and for most stuff, even system stuff, gc is not something hurting at all.
potential memory leak is much more hurting. think of some service you set
that runs 24/7 and happens to leak memory on say a daily basis.. have fun debugging while waiting several days each time to actually measure that
leaked.. even microsoft is not sure yet how to bugfix exchange 2000 to not leak
and eat up ram more and more. system level stuff has to be good performing, sure. but it definitely have
save. thats priority and THE reason why the gc is around everything.
Oct 29 2003
"Achilleas Margaritis" <axilmar in.gr> wrote in message news:bnot23$tgg$1 digitaldaemon.com...If D is a "systems" language, why does it have garbage collection (that can't be turned off) ? It does not seem that I can make an O/S using D...
There's a OS kernel writen in D at http://www.geocities.com/one_mad_alien/dkernel.html Haven't tried it thought.
Oct 29 2003
"Albin Pucnik" <albin.pucnik guest.arnes.si> wrote in message news:bno9i3$2cd$1 digitaldaemon.com...Hi! It looks like Microsoft is moving ( with its new operating system codename Longhorn) to completely managed code( see reports from their PDC). What does that mean for D? Will D compilers translate code to MSIL(microsoft intermediate language) to be excecuted by their virtual machine (CLR)?
I haven't studied MSIL enough, but I think it's possible to do a D implementation for it. To start such a project, you'd need little more than the open source front end to D.
Oct 29 2003
http://download.microsoft.com/download/e/d/1/ed1ca94f-7330-4602-a053-703684d b74bb/20031028LHORNDB.exe Scary scary scary scary scary. And don't beware the .EXE extension, its just a wrapped .ZIP file holding a .WMV file. -- Chris S.
Nov 10 2003