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D - A better name required for the language

reply Andrew Marlow <apm35 student.open.ac.uk> writes:
Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing BUT.. I
think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken countless
times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am sorry I
have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will at least
agree that it is an issue?

It goes without saying that the replacement should be such that web searches
will find the language and not whatever else the name might mean. Also it would
be good to avoid cute names, in-jokes, blantant allusions to DigitalMars etc
etc. I think allusions to Walter Bright would probably be acceptable. After all
he did invent it :-)

-Andrew Marlow
Aug 17 2003
next sibling parent reply "Ben Hinkle" <bhinkle4 juno.com> writes:
I hate to say it but I agree. For me the problem is that whenever I mention
it at work people start laughing and assume the language isn't "serious". I
have no suggestions, though.

-Ben

ps. and is it just me or does "phobos" remind people of that great Infocom
game Leather Goddesses of Phobos? - not that it's a bad thing to be reminded
of that game ;-)


"Andrew Marlow" <apm35 student.open.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:bhnpu9$2hj2$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing

 think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken countless
 times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am

 have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will at

 agree that it is an issue?

 It goes without saying that the replacement should be such that web

 will find the language and not whatever else the name might mean. Also it

 be good to avoid cute names, in-jokes, blantant allusions to DigitalMars

 etc. I think allusions to Walter Bright would probably be acceptable.

 he did invent it :-)

 -Andrew Marlow

Aug 17 2003
next sibling parent Kef Li <Kef_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <bhnvup$2pk8$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Ben Hinkle says...
ps. and is it just me or does "phobos" remind people of that great Infocom
game Leather Goddesses of Phobos? - not that it's a bad thing to be reminded
of that game ;-)

STEVE MERETZKY YEEEAAAHHH!!! ...sorry. Yeah, I'm a Meretzky (designer of Leather Goddesses of Phobos and co-designer of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) fan, though admittedly I can't stand playing Infocom games for an extended period. I end up just using the hint files. :) See, I was ~born~ in the 80s, so I've been spoiled by all these fancy 2D graphics games. Now 2D games seem to be deprecated...I don't understand! That's like saying an animated movie is stupid because it's not 3D. - Kef
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling next sibling parent Hanford Carr <"handycarr<nospam>" comcast.net> writes:
 snip
 I hate to say it but I agree. For me the problem is that whenever I mention
 it at work people start laughing and assume the language isn't "serious". I
 have no suggestions, though.
 -Andrew Marlow


If it was called D++ could they laugh then? -Hanford Does C++ == D--?
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Antti =?iso-8859-1?Q?Syk=E4ri?= <jsykari gamma.hut.fi> writes:
In article <bhnvup$2pk8$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Ben Hinkle wrote:
 I hate to say it but I agree. For me the problem is that whenever I mention
 it at work people start laughing and assume the language isn't "serious". I
 have no suggestions, though.
 

I guess they also laughed when the "C" language was designed to be the predecessor of "B"... And consider "Linux", now that's one bad joke for a name! Seriously, I'd suppose that the popularity of a language will depend more on the amount of programs written in it that on the amount of hours the marketing department has spent trying to figure out a selling name for it. -Antti
Aug 17 2003
parent Andrew Marlow <apm35 student.open.ac.uk> writes:
In article <slrnbjvk76.pru.jsykari pulu.hut.fi>, Antti =?iso-8859-1?Q?Syk=E4ri?=
says...
In article <bhnvup$2pk8$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Ben Hinkle wrote:
 I hate to say it but I agree. For me the problem is that whenever I mention
 it at work people start laughing and assume the language isn't "serious". I
 have no suggestions, though.
 

I guess they also laughed when the "C" language was designed to be the predecessor of "B"... And consider "Linux", now that's one bad joke for a name! Seriously, I'd suppose that the popularity of a language will depend more on the amount of programs written in it that on the amount of hours the marketing department has spent trying to figure out a selling name for it. -Antti

Aug 18 2003
prev sibling parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> writes:
People laugh at anything. Anyone think C++ is not risible, if you actually
think about it?

In any case, this debate is fruitless. The name is out there, in the
communities, and in the development press (I know, because D's been featured
in several articles of mine that are coming out shortly), and to change it
now will merely confuse and dissuade people.

And finally, Walter's chosen it, and (i) we'll not persuade him to change,
and (ii) it's his baby. Maybe it'll grow up to be "owned" by us all (the
larger dev community, I mean), but he can call it what he wants, and we
should respect that.

"Ben Hinkle" <bhinkle4 juno.com> wrote in message
news:bhnvup$2pk8$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I hate to say it but I agree. For me the problem is that whenever I

 it at work people start laughing and assume the language isn't "serious".

 have no suggestions, though.

 -Ben

 ps. and is it just me or does "phobos" remind people of that great Infocom
 game Leather Goddesses of Phobos? - not that it's a bad thing to be

 of that game ;-)


 "Andrew Marlow" <apm35 student.open.ac.uk> wrote in message
 news:bhnpu9$2hj2$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing

 think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken


 times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am

 have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will


 least
 agree that it is an issue?

 It goes without saying that the replacement should be such that web

 will find the language and not whatever else the name might mean. Also


 would
 be good to avoid cute names, in-jokes, blantant allusions to DigitalMars

 etc. I think allusions to Walter Bright would probably be acceptable.

 he did invent it :-)

 -Andrew Marlow


Aug 17 2003
parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> wrote in message
news:bhp6im$1fgp$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 People laugh at anything. Anyone think C++ is not risible, if you actually
 think about it?

 In any case, this debate is fruitless. The name is out there, in the
 communities, and in the development press (I know, because D's been

 in several articles of mine that are coming out shortly), and to change it
 now will merely confuse and dissuade people.

 And finally, Walter's chosen it, and (i) we'll not persuade him to change,
 and (ii) it's his baby. Maybe it'll grow up to be "owned" by us all (the
 larger dev community, I mean), but he can call it what he wants, and we
 should respect that.

I look forward to when D is grown up, standardized, and pretty much belonging to all programmers like C and C++ are.
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling next sibling parent reply John Reimer <jjreimer telus.net> writes:
Andrew Marlow wrote:
 Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing BUT.. I
 think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken countless
 times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am sorry
I
 have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will at
least
 agree that it is an issue?

I don't think it needs changing. I think D is fitting, though some people seem to have thought the name a presumptious move. Maybe it has been taken countless times, but this time will be the only time that will make it work! (I hope) Didn't slashdot people belabor this issue too? Later, John
Aug 17 2003
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> writes:
 I don't think it needs changing.  I think D is fitting, though some
 people seem to have thought the name a presumptious move.

That's a good thing, no? Shake up a few old farts!
Aug 17 2003
parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> wrote in message
news:bhp6in$1fgp$2 digitaldaemon.com...
 I don't think it needs changing.  I think D is fitting, though some
 people seem to have thought the name a presumptious move.

That's a good thing, no? Shake up a few old farts!

One nice thing is it gets peoples' attention in a way that another name would not.
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Kef Li <Kef_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <bhnpu9$2hj2$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Marlow says...
Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing BUT.. I
think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken countless
times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am sorry I
have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will at least
agree that it is an issue?

Yes, I feel it is an issue. For now I generally call it "Digital Mars D" to people unfamiliar with the language, but of course one day this won't be just Digital Mars' language...what to do? - Kef
Aug 17 2003
parent reply Jonathan Andrew <jon ece.arizona.edu> writes:
In article <bhoao1$6h4$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Kef Li says...
In article <bhnpu9$2hj2$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Marlow says...
Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing BUT.. I
think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken countless
times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am sorry I
have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will at least
agree that it is an issue?

Yes, I feel it is an issue. For now I generally call it "Digital Mars D" to people unfamiliar with the language, but of course one day this won't be just Digital Mars' language...what to do? - Kef

Personally, I like "D", it implies true successorship to the C/C++ throne. I mean, its short, sweet, to the point. Sure, its kind of pretentious, but maybe thats what I like the most about it, and even if others have taken the name, this is better, so it wins :). If I had to pick something else, I would call it something even gutsier, like "Awesome" or "Bad-Ass." I mean, who wouldn't want to tell their boss that they used "Bad-Ass" to code the latest project in? ;) -Jon
Aug 17 2003
parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Jonathan Andrew" <jon ece.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:bhoboj$7se$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Personally, I like "D", it implies true successorship to the C/C++ throne.

 mean, its short, sweet, to the point. Sure, its kind of pretentious, but

 thats what I like the most about it, and even if others have taken the

 this is better, so it wins :).

The idea that the language "D" is the successor to C goes at least back to 1987. There were long threads on comp.lang.c about "D" back then, I even participated in them. Although one cannot trademark a letter (Zilog tried once long ago!), D being what it is has a claim going way back. I've certainly been thinking about D that long. I understand the problem with googling on the letter D. I usually will google for "D Programming". The full name of D is the "D Programming Language".
 If I had to pick something else, I would call it
 something even gutsier, like "Awesome" or "Bad-Ass." I mean, who wouldn't

 to tell their boss that they used "Bad-Ass" to code the latest project in?

 ;)

I tried calling D the "mars" language initially, but everyone kept calling it D. There's just no point in trying to swim up Niagra Falls <g>, so D it is. As you said, it's short, sweet, and to the point.
Aug 17 2003
parent reply "Jeroen van Bemmel" <anonymous somewhere.com> writes:
 I understand the problem with googling on the letter D. I usually will
 google for "D Programming". The full name of D is the "D Programming
 Language".

I have no problem with the name, and renaming it now would do more harm than good. But perhaps you could add a view HTML meta-tags to the D webpages, to help search machines find it. Something like <meta name="keywords" content="D,programming,language,C,C++,Java,system programming">
Aug 17 2003
parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Jeroen van Bemmel" <anonymous somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:bhouo8$14jg$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I understand the problem with googling on the letter D. I usually will
 google for "D Programming". The full name of D is the "D Programming
 Language".

I have no problem with the name, and renaming it now would do more harm

 good. But perhaps you could add a view HTML meta-tags to the D webpages,

 help search machines find it.

 Something like
 <meta name="keywords" content="D,programming,language,C,C++,Java,system
 programming">

I was under the impression that search engines ignore meta tags, due to their abuse by too many webmasters.
Aug 17 2003
parent reply someone somewhere.com writes:
I was under the impression that search engines ignore meta tags, due to
their abuse by too many webmasters.

Hmm, could be. I did find this though: http://www.traffick.com/article.asp?aID=105 "Google doesn't completely ignore meta tags as I claimed. They may give a very low weight to keyword tags (we'll never know how much). More importantly, the index will grab a description meta tag as a "fall-through" if a site's home page doesn't contain much if any usable text, nor alt tags on images. Another thing Google does in some cases is to use the description written by a human editor at the Open Directory (http://www.dmoz.org), if the site is listed there." Seems like D could be added to the category 'http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Compilers/'
Aug 18 2003
parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
<someone somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:bhq0c6$2kie$1 digitaldaemon.com...
I was under the impression that search engines ignore meta tags, due to
their abuse by too many webmasters.

Hmm, could be. I did find this though: http://www.traffick.com/article.asp?aID=105 "Google doesn't completely ignore meta tags as I claimed. They may give a

 low weight to keyword tags (we'll never know how much). More importantly,

 index will grab a description meta tag as a "fall-through" if a site's

 doesn't contain much if any usable text, nor alt tags on images. Another

 Google does in some cases is to use the description written by a human

 the Open Directory (http://www.dmoz.org), if the site is listed there."

 Seems like D could be added to the category
 'http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Compilers/'

It's already here: http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/D/ dmoz I think frowns on putting something in in multiple categories.
Aug 18 2003
prev sibling parent reply "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> writes:
What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright solar
object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

Sean

"Andrew Marlow" <apm35 student.open.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:bhnpu9$2hj2$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing

 think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken countless
 times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am

 have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will at

 agree that it is an issue?

 It goes without saying that the replacement should be such that web

 will find the language and not whatever else the name might mean. Also it

 be good to avoid cute names, in-jokes, blantant allusions to DigitalMars

 etc. I think allusions to Walter Bright would probably be acceptable.

 he did invent it :-)

 -Andrew Marlow

Aug 17 2003
next sibling parent reply "Rich C" <no spam.com> writes:
"Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bhondi$nbe$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright solar
 object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

 Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

 Sean

Warner Cable just changed their name to "Bright House." And I'm sure you don't want to be associated with them. Go with your first impulse, I always say. Deimos is the better of your suggestions. Rich C.
Aug 17 2003
next sibling parent reply "Charles Sanders" <sanders-consulting comcast.net> writes:
 "Bright" sucks. It sounds even more pretentious than "D".

Pretentious ? How so, I like the name bright. Demios is also the greek god of dread. "Rich C" <no spam.com> wrote in message news:bhoo2v$o5v$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> wrote in message
 news:bhondi$nbe$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright


 object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

 Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

 Sean

Warner Cable just changed their name to "Bright House." And I'm sure you don't want to be associated with them. Go with your first impulse, I always say. Deimos is the better of your suggestions. Rich C.

Aug 17 2003
next sibling parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Charles Sanders" <sanders-consulting comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bhp63h$1es5$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Bright" sucks. It sounds even more pretentious than "D".

Pretentious ? How so, I like the name bright. Demios is also the greek

 of dread.

I thought for a minute you'd written the "geek" god!
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling parent "Rich C" <no spam.com> writes:
"Charles Sanders" <sanders-consulting comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bhp63h$1es5$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Bright" sucks. It sounds even more pretentious than "D".

Pretentious ? How so, [snip]

It would be like calling the language "smart" or "brilliant" or "best." I prefer to reserve those adjectives for those that use it. :) Rich C.
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling parent "Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> writes:
I think Phobos, Diemos, Bright, and even Walter, should be reserved for
things supporting D

Phobos - the rtl
Deimos - another library, maybe the DTL? (I was thinking DREAD would be good
for the DTL, but I've yet to think of the meanings of the READ part ... )
Bright - the DIDDE
Walter - the next generation compiler. It'd mean the Compiler Walter would
live on, when our compiler-walter has jogged off this mortal coil. Arf Arf




"Rich C" <no spam.com> wrote in message
news:bhoo2v$o5v$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> wrote in message
 news:bhondi$nbe$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright


 object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

 Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

 Sean

Warner Cable just changed their name to "Bright House." And I'm sure you don't want to be associated with them. Go with your first impulse, I always say. Deimos is the better of your suggestions. Rich C.

Aug 17 2003
prev sibling parent reply Andrew Marlow <apm35 student.open.ac.uk> writes:
In article <bhondi$nbe$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Sean L. Palmer says...
What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright solar
object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

Sean

That sounds nice but it would be still hard to find on the web since it is a common word with an ordinary meaning. -Andrew Marlow
Aug 18 2003
parent reply Jaime Abreu <Jaime_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <bhq2mk$2npi$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Marlow says...
In article <bhondi$nbe$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Sean L. Palmer says...
What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright solar
object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

Sean

That sounds nice but it would be still hard to find on the web since it is a common word with an ordinary meaning. -Andrew Marlow

One of those issues should be the ease of finding related resources and information therefore D should have a different name to make searches easier. I think that Deimos is a good name. D++, Dmd, or Dmos are not bad either. jaime abreu
Sep 06 2003
parent John Boucher <John_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <bjcr56$279n$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Jaime Abreu says...
In article <bhq2mk$2npi$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Marlow says...
In article <bhondi$nbe$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Sean L. Palmer says...
What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright solar
object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

Sean

That sounds nice but it would be still hard to find on the web since it is a common word with an ordinary meaning. -Andrew Marlow

One of those issues should be the ease of finding related resources and information therefore D should have a different name to make searches easier. I think that Deimos is a good name. D++, Dmd, or Dmos are not bad either. jaime abreu

Along with searching for resources and information is searching for jobs on Monster and such. John Boucher The King had Humpty pushed.
Sep 14 2003