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D - A better name required for the language

reply Andrew Marlow <apm35 student.open.ac.uk> writes:
Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing BUT.. I
think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken countless
times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am sorry I
have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will at least
agree that it is an issue?

It goes without saying that the replacement should be such that web searches
will find the language and not whatever else the name might mean. Also it would
be good to avoid cute names, in-jokes, blantant allusions to DigitalMars etc
etc. I think allusions to Walter Bright would probably be acceptable. After all
he did invent it :-)

-Andrew Marlow
Aug 17 2003
next sibling parent reply "Ben Hinkle" <bhinkle4 juno.com> writes:
I hate to say it but I agree. For me the problem is that whenever I mention
it at work people start laughing and assume the language isn't "serious". I
have no suggestions, though.

-Ben

ps. and is it just me or does "phobos" remind people of that great Infocom
game Leather Goddesses of Phobos? - not that it's a bad thing to be reminded
of that game ;-)


"Andrew Marlow" <apm35 student.open.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:bhnpu9$2hj2$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing


BUT.. I

 think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken countless
 times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am


sorry I

 have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will at


least

 agree that it is an issue?

 It goes without saying that the replacement should be such that web


searches

 will find the language and not whatever else the name might mean. Also it


would

 be good to avoid cute names, in-jokes, blantant allusions to DigitalMars


etc

 etc. I think allusions to Walter Bright would probably be acceptable.


After all

 he did invent it :-)

 -Andrew Marlow
Aug 17 2003
next sibling parent Kef Li <Kef_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <bhnvup$2pk8$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Ben Hinkle says...

ps. and is it just me or does "phobos" remind people of that great Infocom
game Leather Goddesses of Phobos? - not that it's a bad thing to be reminded
of that game ;-)


STEVE MERETZKY YEEEAAAHHH!!! ...sorry. Yeah, I'm a Meretzky (designer of Leather
Goddesses of Phobos and co-designer of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) fan,
though admittedly I can't stand playing Infocom games for an extended period. I
end up just using the hint files. :) See, I was ~born~ in the 80s, so I've been
spoiled by all these fancy 2D graphics games. Now 2D games seem to be
deprecated...I don't understand! That's like saying an animated movie is stupid
because it's not 3D.

- Kef
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling next sibling parent Hanford Carr <"handycarr<nospam>" comcast.net> writes:
 snip
 I hate to say it but I agree. For me the problem is that whenever I mention
 it at work people start laughing and assume the language isn't "serious". I
 have no suggestions, though.

 -Andrew Marlow




If it was called D++ could they laugh then?

-Hanford

Does C++ == D--?
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Antti =?iso-8859-1?Q?Syk=E4ri?= <jsykari gamma.hut.fi> writes:
In article <bhnvup$2pk8$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Ben Hinkle wrote:

 I hate to say it but I agree. For me the problem is that whenever I mention
 it at work people start laughing and assume the language isn't "serious". I
 have no suggestions, though.
 


I guess they also laughed when the "C" language was designed to be the
predecessor of "B"...

And consider "Linux", now that's one bad joke for a name!

Seriously, I'd suppose that the popularity of a language will depend
more on the amount of programs written in it that on the amount of hours
the marketing department has spent trying to figure out a selling name
for it.

-Antti
Aug 17 2003
parent Andrew Marlow <apm35 student.open.ac.uk> writes:
In article <slrnbjvk76.pru.jsykari pulu.hut.fi>, Antti =?iso-8859-1?Q?Syk=E4ri?=
says...

In article <bhnvup$2pk8$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Ben Hinkle wrote:

 I hate to say it but I agree. For me the problem is that whenever I mention
 it at work people start laughing and assume the language isn't "serious". I
 have no suggestions, though.
 


I guess they also laughed when the "C" language was designed to be the
predecessor of "B"...

And consider "Linux", now that's one bad joke for a name!

Seriously, I'd suppose that the popularity of a language will depend
more on the amount of programs written in it that on the amount of hours
the marketing department has spent trying to figure out a selling name
for it.

-Antti
Aug 18 2003
prev sibling parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> writes:
People laugh at anything. Anyone think C++ is not risible, if you actually
think about it?

In any case, this debate is fruitless. The name is out there, in the
communities, and in the development press (I know, because D's been featured
in several articles of mine that are coming out shortly), and to change it
now will merely confuse and dissuade people.

And finally, Walter's chosen it, and (i) we'll not persuade him to change,
and (ii) it's his baby. Maybe it'll grow up to be "owned" by us all (the
larger dev community, I mean), but he can call it what he wants, and we
should respect that.

"Ben Hinkle" <bhinkle4 juno.com> wrote in message
news:bhnvup$2pk8$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 I hate to say it but I agree. For me the problem is that whenever I


mention

 it at work people start laughing and assume the language isn't "serious".


I

 have no suggestions, though.

 -Ben

 ps. and is it just me or does "phobos" remind people of that great Infocom
 game Leather Goddesses of Phobos? - not that it's a bad thing to be


reminded

 of that game ;-)


 "Andrew Marlow" <apm35 student.open.ac.uk> wrote in message
 news:bhnpu9$2hj2$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing


 BUT.. I

 think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken




countless

 times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am


 sorry I

 have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will




at

 least

 agree that it is an issue?

 It goes without saying that the replacement should be such that web


 searches

 will find the language and not whatever else the name might mean. Also




it

 would

 be good to avoid cute names, in-jokes, blantant allusions to DigitalMars


 etc

 etc. I think allusions to Walter Bright would probably be acceptable.


 After all

 he did invent it :-)

 -Andrew Marlow
Aug 17 2003
parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> wrote in message
news:bhp6im$1fgp$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 People laugh at anything. Anyone think C++ is not risible, if you actually
 think about it?

 In any case, this debate is fruitless. The name is out there, in the
 communities, and in the development press (I know, because D's been


featured

 in several articles of mine that are coming out shortly), and to change it
 now will merely confuse and dissuade people.

 And finally, Walter's chosen it, and (i) we'll not persuade him to change,
 and (ii) it's his baby. Maybe it'll grow up to be "owned" by us all (the
 larger dev community, I mean), but he can call it what he wants, and we
 should respect that.


I look forward to when D is grown up, standardized, and pretty much
belonging to all programmers like C and C++ are.
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling next sibling parent reply John Reimer <jjreimer telus.net> writes:
Andrew Marlow wrote:

 Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing BUT.. I
 think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken countless
 times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am sorry
I
 have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will at
least
 agree that it is an issue?


I don't think it needs changing.  I think D is fitting, though some 
people seem to have thought the name a presumptious move.  Maybe it has 
been taken countless times, but this time will be the only time that 
will make it work! (I hope)

Didn't slashdot people belabor this issue too?

Later,

John
Aug 17 2003
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> writes:
 I don't think it needs changing.  I think D is fitting, though some
 people seem to have thought the name a presumptious move.


That's a good thing, no? Shake up a few old farts!
Aug 17 2003
parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> wrote in message
news:bhp6in$1fgp$2 digitaldaemon.com...

 I don't think it needs changing.  I think D is fitting, though some
 people seem to have thought the name a presumptious move.


 That's a good thing, no? Shake up a few old farts!


One nice thing is it gets peoples' attention in a way that another name
would not.
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Kef Li <Kef_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <bhnpu9$2hj2$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Marlow says...

Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing BUT.. I
think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken countless
times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am sorry I
have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will at least
agree that it is an issue?


Yes, I feel it is an issue. For now I generally call it "Digital Mars D" to
people unfamiliar with the language, but of course one day this won't be just
Digital Mars' language...what to do?

- Kef
Aug 17 2003
parent reply Jonathan Andrew <jon ece.arizona.edu> writes:
In article <bhoao1$6h4$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Kef Li says...

In article <bhnpu9$2hj2$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Marlow says...

Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing BUT.. I
think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken countless
times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am sorry I
have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will at least
agree that it is an issue?


Yes, I feel it is an issue. For now I generally call it "Digital Mars D" to
people unfamiliar with the language, but of course one day this won't be just
Digital Mars' language...what to do?

- Kef



Personally, I like "D", it implies true successorship to the C/C++ throne. I
mean, its short, sweet, to the point. Sure, its kind of pretentious, but maybe
thats what I like the most about it, and even if others have taken the name,
this is better, so it wins :). If I had to pick something else, I would call it
something even gutsier, like "Awesome" or "Bad-Ass." I mean, who wouldn't want
to tell their boss that they used "Bad-Ass" to code the latest project in?

;)

-Jon
Aug 17 2003
parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Jonathan Andrew" <jon ece.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:bhoboj$7se$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Personally, I like "D", it implies true successorship to the C/C++ throne.


I

 mean, its short, sweet, to the point. Sure, its kind of pretentious, but


maybe

 thats what I like the most about it, and even if others have taken the


name,

 this is better, so it wins :).


The idea that the language "D" is the successor to C goes at least back to
1987. There were long threads on comp.lang.c about "D" back then, I even
participated in them. Although one cannot trademark a letter (Zilog tried
once long ago!), D being what it is has a claim going way back. I've
certainly been thinking about D that long.

I understand the problem with googling on the letter D. I usually will
google for "D Programming". The full name of D is the "D Programming
Language".


 If I had to pick something else, I would call it
 something even gutsier, like "Awesome" or "Bad-Ass." I mean, who wouldn't


want

 to tell their boss that they used "Bad-Ass" to code the latest project in?

 ;)


I tried calling D the "mars" language initially, but everyone kept calling
it D. There's just no point in trying to swim up Niagra Falls <g>, so D it
is. As you said, it's short, sweet, and to the point.
Aug 17 2003
parent reply "Jeroen van Bemmel" <anonymous somewhere.com> writes:
 I understand the problem with googling on the letter D. I usually will
 google for "D Programming". The full name of D is the "D Programming
 Language".


I have no problem with the name, and renaming it now would do more harm than
good. But perhaps you could add a view HTML meta-tags to the D webpages, to
help search machines find it.

Something like
<meta name="keywords" content="D,programming,language,C,C++,Java,system
programming">
Aug 17 2003
parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Jeroen van Bemmel" <anonymous somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:bhouo8$14jg$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 I understand the problem with googling on the letter D. I usually will
 google for "D Programming". The full name of D is the "D Programming
 Language".


 I have no problem with the name, and renaming it now would do more harm


than

 good. But perhaps you could add a view HTML meta-tags to the D webpages,


to

 help search machines find it.

 Something like
 <meta name="keywords" content="D,programming,language,C,C++,Java,system
 programming">


I was under the impression that search engines ignore meta tags, due to
their abuse by too many webmasters.
Aug 17 2003
parent reply someone somewhere.com writes:
I was under the impression that search engines ignore meta tags, due to
their abuse by too many webmasters.


Hmm, could be. I did find this though:
http://www.traffick.com/article.asp?aID=105

"Google doesn't completely ignore meta tags as I claimed. They may give a very
low weight to keyword tags (we'll never know how much). More importantly, the
index will grab a description meta tag as a "fall-through" if a site's home page
doesn't contain much if any usable text, nor alt tags on images. Another thing
Google does in some cases is to use the description written by a human editor at
the Open Directory (http://www.dmoz.org), if the site is listed there."

Seems like D could be added to the category
'http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Compilers/'
Aug 18 2003
parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
<someone somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:bhq0c6$2kie$1 digitaldaemon.com...

I was under the impression that search engines ignore meta tags, due to
their abuse by too many webmasters.


 Hmm, could be. I did find this though:
 http://www.traffick.com/article.asp?aID=105

 "Google doesn't completely ignore meta tags as I claimed. They may give a


very

 low weight to keyword tags (we'll never know how much). More importantly,


the

 index will grab a description meta tag as a "fall-through" if a site's


home page

 doesn't contain much if any usable text, nor alt tags on images. Another


thing

 Google does in some cases is to use the description written by a human


editor at

 the Open Directory (http://www.dmoz.org), if the site is listed there."

 Seems like D could be added to the category
 'http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Compilers/'


It's already here:

http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/D/

dmoz I think frowns on putting something in in multiple categories.
Aug 18 2003
prev sibling parent reply "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> writes:
What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright solar
object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

Sean

"Andrew Marlow" <apm35 student.open.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:bhnpu9$2hj2$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Pardon me, a relative newcomer to this forum, for saying such a thing


BUT.. I

 think a better language name is needed. D has already been taken countless
 times, and is very hard to find using most internet search engines. I am


sorry I

 have no better alternative suggestions at present but maybe people will at


least

 agree that it is an issue?

 It goes without saying that the replacement should be such that web


searches

 will find the language and not whatever else the name might mean. Also it


would

 be good to avoid cute names, in-jokes, blantant allusions to DigitalMars


etc

 etc. I think allusions to Walter Bright would probably be acceptable.


After all

 he did invent it :-)

 -Andrew Marlow
Aug 17 2003
next sibling parent reply "Rich C" <no spam.com> writes:
"Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bhondi$nbe$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright solar
 object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

 Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

 Sean


"Bright" sucks. It sounds even more pretentious than "D". Besides, Time
Warner Cable just changed their name to "Bright House." And I'm sure you
don't want to be associated with them.

Go with your first impulse, I always say. Deimos is the better of your
suggestions.

Rich C.
Aug 17 2003
next sibling parent reply "Charles Sanders" <sanders-consulting comcast.net> writes:
 "Bright" sucks. It sounds even more pretentious than "D".


Pretentious ?  How so, I like the name bright.  Demios is also the greek god
of dread.


"Rich C" <no spam.com> wrote in message
news:bhoo2v$o5v$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> wrote in message
 news:bhondi$nbe$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright




solar

 object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

 Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

 Sean


 "Bright" sucks. It sounds even more pretentious than "D". Besides, Time
 Warner Cable just changed their name to "Bright House." And I'm sure you
 don't want to be associated with them.

 Go with your first impulse, I always say. Deimos is the better of your
 suggestions.

 Rich C.
Aug 17 2003
next sibling parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Charles Sanders" <sanders-consulting comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bhp63h$1es5$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 "Bright" sucks. It sounds even more pretentious than "D".


 Pretentious ?  How so, I like the name bright.  Demios is also the greek


god

 of dread.


I thought for a minute you'd written the "geek" god!
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling parent "Rich C" <no spam.com> writes:
"Charles Sanders" <sanders-consulting comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bhp63h$1es5$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 "Bright" sucks. It sounds even more pretentious than "D".


 Pretentious ?  How so, [snip]


It would be like calling the language "smart" or "brilliant" or "best."

I prefer to reserve those adjectives for those that use it. :)

Rich C.
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling parent "Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> writes:
I think Phobos, Diemos, Bright, and even Walter, should be reserved for
things supporting D

Phobos - the rtl
Deimos - another library, maybe the DTL? (I was thinking DREAD would be good
for the DTL, but I've yet to think of the meanings of the READ part ... )
Bright - the DIDDE
Walter - the next generation compiler. It'd mean the Compiler Walter would
live on, when our compiler-walter has jogged off this mortal coil. Arf Arf




"Rich C" <no spam.com> wrote in message
news:bhoo2v$o5v$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> wrote in message
 news:bhondi$nbe$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright




solar

 object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

 Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

 Sean


 "Bright" sucks. It sounds even more pretentious than "D". Besides, Time
 Warner Cable just changed their name to "Bright House." And I'm sure you
 don't want to be associated with them.

 Go with your first impulse, I always say. Deimos is the better of your
 suggestions.

 Rich C.
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling parent reply Andrew Marlow <apm35 student.open.ac.uk> writes:
In article <bhondi$nbe$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Sean L. Palmer says...

What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright solar
object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

Sean


That sounds nice but it would be still hard to find on the web since it is a
common word with an ordinary meaning.

-Andrew Marlow
Aug 18 2003
parent reply Jaime Abreu <Jaime_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <bhq2mk$2npi$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Marlow says...

In article <bhondi$nbe$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Sean L. Palmer says...

What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright solar
object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

Sean


That sounds nice but it would be still hard to find on the web since it is a
common word with an ordinary meaning.

-Andrew Marlow


The overall philosophy behind D is to solve practical programming issues.
One of those issues should be the ease of finding related resources and
information therefore D should have a different name to make searches easier. I
think that Deimos is a good name. D++, Dmd, or Dmos are not bad either.


jaime abreu
Sep 06 2003
parent John Boucher <John_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <bjcr56$279n$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Jaime Abreu says...

In article <bhq2mk$2npi$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Marlow says...

In article <bhondi$nbe$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Sean L. Palmer says...

What's wrong with Deimos?  Starts with the letter "D", it's a bright solar
object, it ties in to DigitalMars.

Someone else suggested calling it "Bright".  That's a good name.

Sean


That sounds nice but it would be still hard to find on the web since it is a
common word with an ordinary meaning.

-Andrew Marlow


The overall philosophy behind D is to solve practical programming issues.
One of those issues should be the ease of finding related resources and
information therefore D should have a different name to make searches easier. I
think that Deimos is a good name. D++, Dmd, or Dmos are not bad either.


jaime abreu


Along with searching for resources and information is searching for jobs on
Monster and such.

John Boucher
The King had Humpty pushed.
Sep 14 2003