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D - What used to be a polite newsgrouop

reply "Frank D. Wills" <mail domain.com> writes:
This used to be a polite newsgroup, a haven
of interest and creativty. For me, that ended
when I was called "very naive", just for posting
a rather bland opinion about goto being an
element of modern languages.

If I had known that I were stepping on a landmine
by forwarding an opinion, I certainly would have
refrained from the post. I have been thoroughly
flamed at this point, and I'm sure many more
flames will follow this post. I now have a much
better understanding of this newsgroup.

There was a busniessman that I knew at one time
who was the perfection of courtesy. I remarked to
him about that, after knowing him for some time,
and he responded that, no, he wasn't really like
that, but that he had been fooling me about being
nice.

Obviously I was fooled about this newsgroup.
Perhaps those who have, and probably will now
flame me are proud and happy about doing so.

Flame away. This isn't the newsgroup that I
thought it was.

Flame away.
Aug 16 2003
next sibling parent reply Ilya Minkov <midiclub 8ung.at> writes:
Frank D. Wills wrote:
 Obviously I was fooled about this newsgroup.
 Perhaps those who have, and probably will now
 flame me are proud and happy about doing so.

I'm sorry for an offense. You just happened to touch way too many religious subjects one after another - goto, alcohol, drugs, women... After entering this group last autumn i considered it quite wierd. But with time, i came to like everyone here. I believe there must also be a number of people who dislike me here - maybe i belong banned. You're not the first person i've offended, although i actually like all of them. And i have excused myself each time. Now, who do you think fooled you about this newsgroup? As you posted you'd like to write a debugger, the reaction was very positive. Even i have dug up something - though admittedly somewhat irrelevant. Whole world is a particularly bad place for people who are easy to offend. :) I know that by myself. But i can't imagine feeling offended after someone i don't personally know says something wrong. Well, that doesn't excuse me. I'm sorry. -i. (eye/midiclub) PS. Let's vote whether i should be banned or not. :) PPS. Gone play with my toys. :> PPPS. ...
Aug 16 2003
next sibling parent reply Simon J Mackenzie <project.d smackoz.fastmail.fm> writes:
Ilya Minkov wrote:
 Frank D. Wills wrote:
 
 Obviously I was fooled about this newsgroup.
 Perhaps those who have, and probably will now
 flame me are proud and happy about doing so.

I'm sorry for an offense. You just happened to touch way too many religious subjects one after another - goto, alcohol, drugs, women...

I'm still laughing!!!!! Laughter is good for the soul!!!
 
 After entering this group last autumn i considered it quite wierd. But 
 with time, i came to like everyone here. I believe there must also be a 
 number of people who dislike me here - maybe i belong banned. You're not 
 the first person i've offended, although i actually like all of them. 
 And i have excused myself each time.

 
 PS. Let's vote whether i should be banned or not. :)
 
 PPS. Gone play with my toys. :>
 
 PPPS. ...
 

You have my vote??? Stay on, stay on...
Aug 17 2003
parent reply Ilya Minkov <midiclub 8ung.at> writes:
Simon J Mackenzie wrote:
 PS. Let's vote whether i should be banned or not. :)


 You have my vote???  Stay on, stay on...

I vote to ban myself so that Frank Wills may stay -- if he actually is afraid of me that much. -eye
Aug 17 2003
parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Ilya Minkov" <midiclub 8ung.at> wrote in message
news:bhnpon$2gns$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Simon J Mackenzie wrote:
 PS. Let's vote whether i should be banned or not. :)


 You have my vote???  Stay on, stay on...

I vote to ban myself so that Frank Wills may stay -- if he actually is afraid of me that much.

I vote that both of you stay.
Aug 17 2003
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> writes:
Of course. I'm sure that goes for us all.

"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:bhoh5e$f27$2 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Ilya Minkov" <midiclub 8ung.at> wrote in message
 news:bhnpon$2gns$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Simon J Mackenzie wrote:
 PS. Let's vote whether i should be banned or not. :)


 You have my vote???  Stay on, stay on...

I vote to ban myself so that Frank Wills may stay -- if he actually is afraid of me that much.

I vote that both of you stay.

Aug 17 2003
parent "Riccardo De Agostini" <riccardo.de.agostini email.it> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:bhoukq$14fp$2 digitaldaemon.com...
 Of course. I'm sure that goes for us all.

Count me in. BTW, I didn't read the message that started it all (the one where Frank was defined as "very naive"), I'm sorry about that but after 15 days of vacation I had a thousand new messages in this NG alone... I think, though, that maybe Frank and Ilya have different ideas about the strength of the word "naive" and even about it being an offense. This can happen, since there are people here with very different cultural backgrounds: not all of us are native English speakers, and even those who are come from different places, where words may have slight differences in strength, if not in meaning. I recall being told about an Italian word (which I will not mention here, but the nearest English translation I can think of is "dummy") which is so widely used in Milan it goes almost unnoticed, while in Turin (125km west!) it's taken as a very rude offense. Another difference comes from how one is used to form phrases is his/her own language. We Italians tend to be so verbose, that when someone German or Austrian only wants to be straightforward may sound rude to us. But it's just his/her way to say things, and it looks like it may be the case for Ilya too (Ilya, do you remember when you told me to get a good OOP book? ;-) ) So, well, a bit more of attention when we write, plus a little more tolerance about what we read, and it shouldn't be so difficult to live in peace... This is a technical NG after all, fancy if it was about politics... :-) Ric
Aug 25 2003
prev sibling parent Bill Cox <bill viasic.com> writes:
Ilya Minkov wrote:

 PS. Let's vote whether i should be banned or not. :)

Nope. However, anything akin to insulting one's intellegence on this group is bound to draw maximum flames. Many of us are sensitive in this area...
Aug 19 2003
prev sibling next sibling parent reply John Reimer <jjreimer telus.net> writes:
Frank D. Wills wrote:
 This used to be a polite newsgroup, a haven
 of interest and creativty. For me, that ended
 when I was called "very naive", just for posting
 a rather bland opinion about goto being an
 element of modern languages.

This newsgroup still is. Some of the people I admit are fairly frank about their opinions, sometimes bordering on rude; but then you realize that those same aggressive natures are what move things forward. You take it with a grain of salt. They'll get beaten up in the real world if their arrogance/aggression gets out of hand. It's not our concern. If Matthew Wilson called you naive, well that was his opinion. Don't worry about it. Just because he says so, doesn't mean it's true. You shouldn't care about his opinion. He doesn't know what you can or can't do. You even called him naive back. That doesn't mean that's true, although maybe it is ;). Good grief, we are all "naive" in one way or another.
 
 If I had known that I were stepping on a landmine
 by forwarding an opinion, I certainly would have
 refrained from the post. I have been thoroughly
 flamed at this point, and I'm sure many more
 flames will follow this post. I now have a much
 better understanding of this newsgroup.

You got "flamed" because you were considered to be overeacting by some of the people here. I've overreacted before too when someone made what I considered a belittling comment to me here. It just makes it worse when you take it too seriously, though. Best to let it slide, and feel sorry for the poor soul that thought you naive. :)
 There was a busniessman that I knew at one time
 who was the perfection of courtesy. I remarked to
 him about that, after knowing him for some time,
 and he responded that, no, he wasn't really like
 that, but that he had been fooling me about being
 nice.

Believe me...That's all that courtesy often is. If you ever thought otherwise, you were fooled. It definitely has it place, but sometimes its best for people to just be themselves instead of pretenders. Some may not like the results, but I'd rather know a person is being forthwright than surreptitious. This newsgroup for the most part has had a fairly good balance between courtesy and frankness. Courtesy never did hold it back, though. You'll also notice that this newsgroup has fair number of nationalities involved, and thus the definition of courtesy is not the same amongst the members. But in the end this group does marvelously well considering the cultural variety here.
 Obviously I was fooled about this newsgroup.
 Perhaps those who have, and probably will now
 flame me are proud and happy about doing so.
 
 Flame away. This isn't the newsgroup that I
 thought it was.
 
 Flame away.
 

You shouldn't be fooled about this newsgroup! It has people in it! People are fallible, emotional, arrogant, willful, conniving, selfish creatures (ouch!). Despite having people in it, this newsgroup has done very well! If you think D has a future, please don't give up on this newsgroup just because of people! Forgive and forget. And, no, people don't always apologize for what they say, nor do they necessarily need to. That's just courtesy which doesn't necessarily mean they mean it if they do. Just another human being, John
Aug 16 2003
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> writes:
This is the most immensely dull waste of time imaginable. It seems that we
were all having lots of good fun, until Frank took something I said to mean
something it did not.

If you look back, you can see that I did not say Frank was naive. I said,
"Don't mean to offend, but this sounds terribly naive."

What John says about nationalities is salient here. To say something is
"terribly XYZ" is an idiom of British English speech, it does not mean that
something is terrible, or even extreme, it's a kind of pass-off comment.
(Not that you should take this explanation as an attempt to resile from the
statement itself; it is not.) Perhaps I should have thought to phrase it in
a culture-neutral (at least as far as native English speakers go) fashion,
as in "this sounds a bit naive". (You'll note, if you care to, that I did
prefix with an attempt to not offend. Still, why let a full quote get in the
way of a good story, eh?)

I'm from England, where the art of sarcasm has its home; in fact the north
of England (and I have the funny accent you'll have seen in all those Monty
Python sketches) where people are blunt to the point of artform. It's not
the American flavour, where one is honour bound to offer a raised eyebrow or
over-open one's eyes, to give the recipient a clue that it really is sarcasm
and not to be offended - the real-life equivalent of the ;).

I now live in Australia, and I can tell you, if you think you'd have a hard
time dealing with (one of) the English, you should come to Australia. They
have a phrase here, called the "Tall Poppy Syndrome", and it basically means
that people who think they are (if my American idiom is correct) "all that",
or act like princesses, get their heads chopped off. If you say something
dumb, or you take on airs, or you are generally "up yourself" in Australia,
you won't survive for a week. If you act arrogantly, you'd better be right,
or you'll be told you're a dickhead (probably with less polite words).

(Maybe this is opening up a new hornet's nest, but I reckon you'd have to go
a long way to find a society less violent or threatening and more friendly
than the Australian. Perhaps by getting things off their chest each day,
things don't build up to more apocalyptic proportions ...)

I'm not saying my culture is any better than yours. How could I? Only an
idiot (or an Italian president) will do that. But I am saying that my
cultures (English & Australian) are no less valid than yours. Sure, one
could argue that I was inappropriate in failing to adhere to your cultural
norms, and should have said "but your proposition sounds a bit naive".
Alternatively one could argue that you should have grokked my Englishness
from my pompous language and preposterously long posts in this ng, and
should therefore have understood the idiomatic foundation of my comment as
it stands. Alternatively, a native Australian could argue that I was overly
lenient and should have said something like "don't be a Galah!".

The fact is, we're all from different places, and if you get on a ng these
days without being mindful of this, you're kind of responsible for failing
to protect your ego appropriately. If you do that, and get stuck into pretty
much the most contentious issue in SE, then one struggles to have sympathy
with your offence. (Although I'm trying Ringo, I'm trying real hard!)

In the past, I've found Sean brusque, and Ilya insulting and bizarre,
sometimes both at once. However, having learned more about each of them from
subsequent postings, I have come to like their idiosyncrasies and I've
become inured to the cultural overtones in their expression. I'm sure they
would have done the same with mine, if I'd had any. (That was sarcasm,
btw.). It's not very difficult to do: to quote someone who always manages to
say more in fewer words.

  "Well, we were [get along in peace and harmony], before you came and
started telling people how insensitive they are."


Maybe your beef is that I said that your opinion was, to rephrase, "a bit
naive". If so, the offence must stand. I do think that opinion is naive.
(btw, you may *not* construe this once again to take me to be saying _you_
are naive. I know virtually nothing about you, and though I run off at the
mouth a lot, I am *very* careful about not stipulating conjecture as fact.)

Since debating opinion is pretty much the raison d'etre of a newsgroup, so
without it we might as well, erm, ...


In the end, though, why do you care what anyone else thinks? Do you want to
be liked by everyone, or do you want to take a risk (of being wrong) and
learn? My assessment of self-worth is in no part dependent on the reaction I
get to newsgroup posts - especially ones about goto! - nor should yours be.
At the end of the day we each need to acquit ourselves to our conscience,
our god, or whatever else we each hold as an arbiter of our behaviour, and
if we've not done well, resolve to do better tomorrow.


And that's it from me. As I said before, this is a preposterously dull waste
of time, and I plan to waste no more.

Frank, if you can consider this a gesture of open-mindedness, and an offer
of some advice from someone with a moderate amount of inter-cultural
experience, then that's great. Please do so.

If you must take it as more flame, then you shall likely to misconstrue
anything else I, or anyone else, can say, so I suspect we'll all be just
ignoring your posts so as to avoid causing any further offence.

I'm off to do some work.

Matthew


"John Reimer" <jjreimer telus.net> wrote in message
news:bhma0e$duc$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Frank D. Wills wrote:
 This used to be a polite newsgroup, a haven
 of interest and creativty. For me, that ended
 when I was called "very naive", just for posting
 a rather bland opinion about goto being an
 element of modern languages.

This newsgroup still is. Some of the people I admit are fairly frank about their opinions, sometimes bordering on rude; but then you realize that those same aggressive natures are what move things forward. You take it with a grain of salt. They'll get beaten up in the real world if their arrogance/aggression gets out of hand. It's not our concern. If Matthew Wilson called you naive, well that was his opinion. Don't worry about it. Just because he says so, doesn't mean it's true. You shouldn't care about his opinion. He doesn't know what you can or can't do. You even called him naive back. That doesn't mean that's true, although maybe it is ;). Good grief, we are all "naive" in one way or another.
 If I had known that I were stepping on a landmine
 by forwarding an opinion, I certainly would have
 refrained from the post. I have been thoroughly
 flamed at this point, and I'm sure many more
 flames will follow this post. I now have a much
 better understanding of this newsgroup.

You got "flamed" because you were considered to be overeacting by some of the people here. I've overreacted before too when someone made what I considered a belittling comment to me here. It just makes it worse when you take it too seriously, though. Best to let it slide, and feel sorry for the poor soul that thought you naive. :)
 There was a busniessman that I knew at one time
 who was the perfection of courtesy. I remarked to
 him about that, after knowing him for some time,
 and he responded that, no, he wasn't really like
 that, but that he had been fooling me about being
 nice.

Believe me...That's all that courtesy often is. If you ever thought otherwise, you were fooled. It definitely has it place, but sometimes its best for people to just be themselves instead of pretenders. Some may not like the results, but I'd rather know a person is being forthwright than surreptitious. This newsgroup for the most part has had a fairly good balance between courtesy and frankness. Courtesy never did hold it back, though. You'll also notice that this newsgroup has fair number of nationalities involved, and thus the definition of courtesy is not the same amongst the members. But in the end this group does marvelously well considering the cultural variety here.
 Obviously I was fooled about this newsgroup.
 Perhaps those who have, and probably will now
 flame me are proud and happy about doing so.

 Flame away. This isn't the newsgroup that I
 thought it was.

 Flame away.

You shouldn't be fooled about this newsgroup! It has people in it! People are fallible, emotional, arrogant, willful, conniving, selfish creatures (ouch!). Despite having people in it, this newsgroup has done very well! If you think D has a future, please don't give up on this newsgroup just because of people! Forgive and forget. And, no, people don't always apologize for what they say, nor do they necessarily need to. That's just courtesy which doesn't necessarily mean they mean it if they do. Just another human being, John

Aug 16 2003
next sibling parent reply John Reimer <jjreimer telus.net> writes:
Matthew Wilson wrote:
 This is the most immensely dull waste of time imaginable. It seems that we
 were all having lots of good fun, until Frank took something I said to mean
 something it did not.

Yes, it really got out of hand.
 If you look back, you can see that I did not say Frank was naive. I said,
 "Don't mean to offend, but this sounds terribly naive."

Good point, I slipped on that one. There's a significant difference between the two statements. Immensely dull as the topic is, your post was actually quite an interesting read :). Later, John PS. It's just like us humans to love the complements but hate the criticism.
Aug 16 2003
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> writes:
 Immensely dull as the topic is, your post was actually quite an
 interesting read :).

You're welcome. I really think we all just need to laugh a little more, mostly at ourselves ...
 PS. It's just like us humans to love the complements but hate the
 criticism.

Except when you're writing a book. I'm getting quite grumpy with some of my nicer reviewers being kind and all. I want it hard, vicious, and straight between the eyes!!
Aug 16 2003
next sibling parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> wrote in message
news:bhmupr$1b0h$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Immensely dull as the topic is, your post was actually quite an
 interesting read :).

mostly at ourselves ...
 PS. It's just like us humans to love the complements but hate the
 criticism.


 nicer reviewers being kind and all. I want it hard, vicious, and straight
 between the eyes!!

I bet I've been told to f**k off online more than anyone else here! It sort of comes with the territory of my amazingly swelled head.
Aug 16 2003
parent reply "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> writes:
Yeah, but you have the reasoning skills to back it up.  And while you're
quite strongly opinionated, it's usually based in cold, hard experience.
You are rational and logical and have never, that I've seen, come off as
being a prick.  So I'm surprised to get told to f**k off so much!  You'd
think I'd get it more than I do...  surprisingly it's usually only a few
times per year!  ;)

Sean

"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:bhn2ke$1h5o$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I bet I've been told to f**k off online more than anyone else here! It

 of comes with the territory of my amazingly swelled head.

Aug 17 2003
next sibling parent "Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> writes:
 Yeah, but you have the reasoning skills to back it up.  And while you're
 quite strongly opinionated, it's usually based in cold, hard experience.
 You are rational and logical and have never, that I've seen, come off as
 being a prick.  So I'm surprised to get told to f**k off so much!  You'd
 think I'd get it more than I do...  surprisingly it's usually only a few
 times per year!  ;)

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago*: "I've found Sean brusque ... I have come to like [his] idiosyncrasies and I've become inured to the cultural overtones in [his] expression" Add to that the fact that you say some very funny things and, curse it, you're right a lot of the time. :( Derek the Didactic Druid * For those that do not follow British politics from afar (or near), this is what a minister will reply to a questioner who seeks to rake over old ground. How much more cool than RTFM is that!? Of course, maybe it only appeals to me because it uses more words to say the same thing. In the words of a famous talk-show psychiatrist: "But if less is more, imagine how much more more would be!"
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling parent reply "Charles Sanders" <sanders-consulting comcast.net> writes:
f**k off!

Sean why dont you join the group to rewrite phobos ?

Charles

"Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> wrote in message
news:bhndjs$20rf$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Yeah, but you have the reasoning skills to back it up.  And while you're
 quite strongly opinionated, it's usually based in cold, hard experience.
 You are rational and logical and have never, that I've seen, come off as
 being a prick.  So I'm surprised to get told to f**k off so much!  You'd
 think I'd get it more than I do...  surprisingly it's usually only a few
 times per year!  ;)

 Sean

 "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:bhn2ke$1h5o$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I bet I've been told to f**k off online more than anyone else here! It

 of comes with the territory of my amazingly swelled head.


Aug 17 2003
parent "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> writes:
I am not really opposed to it, but don't think I have the free time for it.
Maybe a little free time.  ;)

It might be fun, and could be more productive than my usual spare time.

Hmm.  I'll have to think about it.  It's a pretty large commitment.

Sean

"Charles Sanders" <sanders-consulting comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bho8em$3gl$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 f**k off!

 Sean why dont you join the group to rewrite phobos ?

 Charles

 "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> wrote in message
 news:bhndjs$20rf$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Yeah, but you have the reasoning skills to back it up.  And while you're
 quite strongly opinionated, it's usually based in cold, hard experience.
 You are rational and logical and have never, that I've seen, come off as
 being a prick.  So I'm surprised to get told to f**k off so much!  You'd
 think I'd get it more than I do...  surprisingly it's usually only a few
 times per year!  ;)

 Sean

 "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:bhn2ke$1h5o$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I bet I've been told to f**k off online more than anyone else here! It

 of comes with the territory of my amazingly swelled head.



Aug 17 2003
prev sibling parent Alen Siljak <alen djesi.ba> writes:
Matthew Wilson wrote:
PS. It's just like us humans to love the complements but hate the
criticism.

Except when you're writing a book. I'm getting quite grumpy with some of my nicer reviewers being kind and all. I want it hard, vicious, and straight between the eyes!!

... legs. :)
Aug 21 2003
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Ilya Minkov <midiclub 8ung.at> writes:
Matthew Wilson wrote:
 This is the most immensely dull waste of time imaginable.

True. I'm sorry since i think i caused that.
 If you look back, you can see that I did not say Frank was naive. I said,
 "Don't mean to offend, but this sounds terribly naive."

I ofended him, not you - after he came up with analogy to subjects incomparable to goto and simply irrelevant. It may also be that our views of the world clashed: in his world, noone smokes, drinks no alcohol, no drugs, teenagers don't get pregnant, everyone absolves the university with perfection... Mine is different. Among my friends, there are rock musicians, grufties, all kinds of wierdos, and not only the university folks. -eye
Aug 17 2003
parent "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
 This is the most immensely dull waste of time imaginable.

True. I'm sorry since i think i caused that.

Hmmm, ok. I thought it had transpired that the blame was mine, but if you want it, you're welcome to it.
 If you look back, you can see that I did not say Frank was naive. I


 "Don't mean to offend, but this sounds terribly naive."

I ofended him, not you - after he came up with analogy to subjects incomparable to goto and simply irrelevant. It may also be that our views of the world clashed: in his world, noone smokes, drinks no alcohol, no drugs, teenagers don't get pregnant, everyone absolves the university with perfection... Mine is different. Among my friends, there are rock musicians, grufties, all kinds of wierdos, and not only the university folks.

You're quite right. Variety is the spice of life.
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling next sibling parent Derek Parnell <derek.parnell no.spam> writes:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 09:39:21 +1000 (08/17/03 09:39:21)
, Matthew Wilson <matthew stlsoft.org> wrote:


 (Maybe this is opening up a new hornet's nest, but I reckon you'd have to 
 go
 a long way to find a society less violent or threatening and more 
 friendly
 than the Australian. Perhaps by getting things off their chest each day,
 things don't build up to more apocalyptic proportions ...)

100% agree, you dickhead ;-) -- Derek (Melbourne, Australia)
Aug 17 2003
prev sibling parent "Riccardo De Agostini" <riccardo.de.agostini email.it> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <matthew stlsoft.org> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:bhmf11$kvl$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I'm not saying my culture is any better than yours. How could I? Only an
 idiot (or an Italian president) will do that.

Minister, not President. :-) That said... agreed 100%! Ric
Aug 25 2003
prev sibling parent reply "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> writes:
Bye.

Sean

"Frank D. Wills" <mail domain.com> wrote in message
news:bhm6s5$9h2$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 This used to be a polite newsgroup, a haven
 of interest and creativty. For me, that ended
 when I was called "very naive", just for posting
 a rather bland opinion about goto being an
 element of modern languages.

 If I had known that I were stepping on a landmine
 by forwarding an opinion, I certainly would have
 refrained from the post. I have been thoroughly
 flamed at this point, and I'm sure many more
 flames will follow this post. I now have a much
 better understanding of this newsgroup.

 There was a busniessman that I knew at one time
 who was the perfection of courtesy. I remarked to
 him about that, after knowing him for some time,
 and he responded that, no, he wasn't really like
 that, but that he had been fooling me about being
 nice.

 Obviously I was fooled about this newsgroup.
 Perhaps those who have, and probably will now
 flame me are proud and happy about doing so.

 Flame away. This isn't the newsgroup that I
 thought it was.

 Flame away.

Aug 17 2003
parent reply Ilya Minkov <midiclub 8ung.at> writes:
That reminds me quitting the finnish demogroup i'm in. I did it trice. 
And after i quit the last time, i actually did some coding for them.

I'm currently intending to start a new demogroup - that's also a reason 
for my nick change. (i. -> eye). I think Frank shall come back a few 
times, and may probably start writing his own language. :)

-eye

Sean L. Palmer wrote:
 Bye.
 
 Sean

Aug 17 2003
parent "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> writes:
Yeah.  I've said I was leaving this NG on more than one occasion.  ;)

Sean

"Ilya Minkov" <midiclub 8ung.at> wrote in message
news:bhnqes$2i9a$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 That reminds me quitting the finnish demogroup i'm in. I did it trice.
 And after i quit the last time, i actually did some coding for them.

 I'm currently intending to start a new demogroup - that's also a reason
 for my nick change. (i. -> eye). I think Frank shall come back a few
 times, and may probably start writing his own language. :)

 -eye

 Sean L. Palmer wrote:
 Bye.

 Sean


Aug 17 2003