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D - Win32 GUI startup code consolidation?

reply "Luna Kid" <lunakid neuropolis.org> writes:
I may well be outdated on this, sorry. But
I guess /dmd/samples/d/winsamp.d is still the
canonical Windows GUI "Hello world" example.

The console (main()-style) startup code, is
already integrated into the std. lib (dmain2.d).
Is the the same thing for GUI apps (with WinMain
startup) going to be consolidated, too? (When if
yes and can be guessed, why if no?)

(Note: I mean not using any extra stuff, like DIG,
but DMD + phobos alone.)

Thanks very much,
Sz.
May 12 2003
next sibling parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Luna Kid" <lunakid neuropolis.org> wrote in message
news:b9p17k$2ov3$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I may well be outdated on this, sorry. But
 I guess /dmd/samples/d/winsamp.d is still the
 canonical Windows GUI "Hello world" example.

 The console (main()-style) startup code, is
 already integrated into the std. lib (dmain2.d).
 Is the the same thing for GUI apps (with WinMain
 startup) going to be consolidated, too? (When if
 yes and can be guessed, why if no?)

I will be eventually when I gain more experience with it.
May 12 2003
prev sibling parent reply "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> writes:
Someone should write a real Windows hello program, that opens up a little
window that says Hello.  Not by cheating and calling MessageBox, but the
right way.

Well, it wouldn't be very hard.  If I ripped out the D3D stuff I could make
one in a few minutes.  But isn't Win32 on the way out anyway?  Maybe we
should try to hook D up to .NET.   All the new GUI facilities will have .NET
support first, I bet.

Sean


"Luna Kid" <lunakid neuropolis.org> wrote in message
news:b9p17k$2ov3$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I may well be outdated on this, sorry. But
 I guess /dmd/samples/d/winsamp.d is still the
 canonical Windows GUI "Hello world" example.

 The console (main()-style) startup code, is
 already integrated into the std. lib (dmain2.d).
 Is the the same thing for GUI apps (with WinMain
 startup) going to be consolidated, too? (When if
 yes and can be guessed, why if no?)

 (Note: I mean not using any extra stuff, like DIG,
 but DMD + phobos alone.)

 Thanks very much,
 Sz.

May 12 2003
next sibling parent "Luna Kid" <lunakid neuropolis.org> writes:
That's right, .NET is required.
(I just also need Win32 badly for the time being.)

Sz.

"Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> wrote in message
news:b9pst6$hc6$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Someone should write a real Windows hello program, that opens up a little
 window that says Hello.  Not by cheating and calling MessageBox, but the
 right way.

 Well, it wouldn't be very hard.  If I ripped out the D3D stuff I could

 one in a few minutes.  But isn't Win32 on the way out anyway?  Maybe we
 should try to hook D up to .NET.   All the new GUI facilities will have

 support first, I bet.

 Sean


 "Luna Kid" <lunakid neuropolis.org> wrote in message
 news:b9p17k$2ov3$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I may well be outdated on this, sorry. But
 I guess /dmd/samples/d/winsamp.d is still the
 canonical Windows GUI "Hello world" example.

 The console (main()-style) startup code, is
 already integrated into the std. lib (dmain2.d).
 Is the the same thing for GUI apps (with WinMain
 startup) going to be consolidated, too? (When if
 yes and can be guessed, why if no?)

 (Note: I mean not using any extra stuff, like DIG,
 but DMD + phobos alone.)

 Thanks very much,
 Sz.


May 13 2003
prev sibling parent reply Andy Friesen <andy ikagames.com> writes:
Sean L. Palmer wrote:
 Someone should write a real Windows hello program, that opens up a little
 window that says Hello.  Not by cheating and calling MessageBox, but the
 right way.
 
 Well, it wouldn't be very hard.  If I ripped out the D3D stuff I could make
 one in a few minutes.  But isn't Win32 on the way out anyway?  Maybe we
 should try to hook D up to .NET.   All the new GUI facilities will have .NET
 support first, I bet.
 
 Sean
 

Nope, it's still the other way around. .NET just provides some nice classes that wrap win32. (extremely nice. too bad they don't have Java's LayoutManagers) I don't think win32 is going anywhere until win64 becomes standard fare. With any luck, the API will become sane at that point. :)
May 13 2003
parent reply "Luna Kid" <lunakid neuropolis.org> writes:
Ah, I just wanted to ask about this, while started
downloading the 100meg .NET SDK to finally see what
the fuss is all about...

Everything I _read_ about .NET suggests to me that it
is for distributed applications. OTOH, people continue
to _tell_ that .NET is the successor of Win32.

So now, where is the truth? E.g. how .NET affects things
like desktop applications, like developing (not particularly
networked) games?

Thanks,
Sz.


"Andy Friesen" <andy ikagames.com> wrote in message
news:b9qrrl$1dsg$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Sean L. Palmer wrote:
 Someone should write a real Windows hello program, that opens up a


 window that says Hello.  Not by cheating and calling MessageBox, but the
 right way.

 Well, it wouldn't be very hard.  If I ripped out the D3D stuff I could


 one in a few minutes.  But isn't Win32 on the way out anyway?  Maybe we
 should try to hook D up to .NET.   All the new GUI facilities will have


 support first, I bet.

 Sean

Nope, it's still the other way around. .NET just provides some nice classes that wrap win32. (extremely nice. too bad they don't have Java's LayoutManagers) I don't think win32 is going anywhere until win64 becomes standard fare. With any luck, the API will become sane at that point. :)

May 13 2003
next sibling parent "Sean L. Palmer" <palmer.sean verizon.net> writes:
.NET isn't particularly well-suited to developing games.

The .NET core library is a very well-organized, modern, language-agnostic
API wrapped around an old, worn-out, horribly designed legacy Win32 API, and
it will remain that way for the immediately foreseeable future until M$ gets
around to making it the base layer and jettisoning Win32 or implementing a
Win32 compatibility layer which calls low-level .NET functions.  ;)  They
supposedly are going to do the same with GDI+ (implemented in terms of
DirectX instead of the other way around).

Really I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, so feel free to ignore
me.  Or correct me.  ;)

Sean

"Luna Kid" <lunakid neuropolis.org> wrote in message
news:b9qt4d$1f93$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Ah, I just wanted to ask about this, while started
 downloading the 100meg .NET SDK to finally see what
 the fuss is all about...

 Everything I _read_ about .NET suggests to me that it
 is for distributed applications. OTOH, people continue
 to _tell_ that .NET is the successor of Win32.

 So now, where is the truth? E.g. how .NET affects things
 like desktop applications, like developing (not particularly
 networked) games?

 Thanks,
 Sz.

May 13 2003
prev sibling parent reply Andy Friesen <andy ikagames.com> writes:
Luna Kid wrote:
 Ah, I just wanted to ask about this, while started
 downloading the 100meg .NET SDK to finally see what
 the fuss is all about...
 
 Everything I _read_ about .NET suggests to me that it
 is for distributed applications. OTOH, people continue
 to _tell_ that .NET is the successor of Win32.
 
 So now, where is the truth? E.g. how .NET affects things
 like desktop applications, like developing (not particularly
 networked) games?
 
 Thanks,
 Sz.
 

.NET is a whole lot of things, and nobody seems to know exactly what, since Microsoft thought it would be rad to call everything .NET. They've since realized how dumb this is, and are renaming everything. ;) The .NET Framework is what most folks mean when they say .NET. The really short version is that it's meant to be a better Java. C# is essentially a Java clone with lots of (awesome) syntactic sugar added to it, like properties, namespaces, delegates, and constants. Managed C++ boils down to a compiler hack to make all the C/Java interop code implicit; instead of using an API to interface native code with .NET, you just use this subset of C++ for "managed" classes, and they will Just Work in any other .NET language. (it's kind of nifty to code a class in C++, subclass it in VB.NET, then actually put it to use in C#) I haven't used .NET for anything distributed yet, so I can't comment on that. .NET can't take the place of win32. It's way, way too high level for that. It can, however, replace Visual Basic; its GUI classes are infinitely better and the C# language is more obvious and easy to use. I once did a nifty little platform engine in C#. It was a joy to code. VS.NET is an awesome IDE, the language itself is clean and obvious, and the .NET class library rocks. The problem is that it's nowhere nearly as fast as C++. I managed a meager 80fps at 320x240, using OpenGL for rendering. (on an Athlon XP 1600+) The same sort of thing can be done in C++ at 500fps (on my system) without spending any real effort on speed hacking. So, I don't think .NET is a very good choice to code a game with. Not exclusively, anyway. C# is pretty awesome for quick little GUI apps, like a level editor for such a game, though, so I wouldn't say that .NET doesn't have any importance in the game programming arena.
May 13 2003
parent "Luna Kid" <lunakid neuropolis.org> writes:
 So now, where is the truth? E.g. how .NET affects things
 like desktop applications, like developing (not particularly
 networked) games?


 .NET is a whole lot of things, and nobody seems to know exactly what,
 since Microsoft thought it would be rad to call everything .NET.
 They've since realized how dumb this is, and are renaming everything. ;)

(Yes, they've had this "naming disorder" for quite a while...) Thanks for the excellent summary, Andy! Sz.
May 14 2003